DPPt/HGSS Magmar/Magmortar

[Magpie]

I'm wanting to train a Magmar on Diamond, but I'm not sure which way to go with him. I'll list my ideas so far in a minute, but my first question is about evolving Magmar. Basically, should I do it? I much prefer Magmar, and according to my Guide I'd only gain an extra 'bar' in Special defense.

Magmar
HP **
Attack ***
defense **
Special Attack ****
Special defense **

 

[KoL]

Here's a suggestion:

Magmortar @ Life Orb/Wise Glasses
Hasty/Naive
Flash Fire

- Flamethrower
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
- Focus Punch

Nature boosts Speed and lowers Defense/Sp.Defense respectively, since this set has both Special moves and a Physical one as well. Flamethrower for STAB, Thunderbolt for Water-types, Psychic for lack of a better move really, and Focus Punch to take care of Blissey, Snorlax etc. on the switch-in. If you don't like Focus Punch, swap it for Focus Blast and have a Timid Nature instead.

 

[Magpie]

Psychic is interesting, mainly because it will at least hit most types for neutral damage. That works better for me than protect. Is focus punch the move that makes you go last and if hit by the opponents move you flinch and miss your turn? If it is then I'm not sure I'd do very well with it. I'm sure I've used it before and replaced it. I'll have to have a think about it, or maybe test it out.

Thanks for the Nature suggestions!

 

[KoL]

Yes, Focus Punch is the one that makes you flinch if you get hit before it connects. It's best to use it if you're good at predicting switch-ins, since you can catch the opponent off-guard and do some serious damage to them with it if you hit the right Pokemon.
It is a high-risk move with potentially high reward, but it can also backfire if you predict wrongly. If you prefer to play it safe, use Focus Blast instead and have a Timid nature since the Attack drop won't affect you.

 

[Magpie]

Hmmm. Let's just say I'm not so confident at predicting switch-ins yet. I think I'd prefer to play it safe, although I am tempted just to try it anyway and see how I go.

I've had a second look at Magmortar's Move Pool, or more importantly Magby's. Would Cross Chop be any good as a fighting move instead of Focus Punch? It's stronger than Brick Break, even though it's only 80% accurate.

 

[Jeydis]

Well with Magmortar I beleive his movepool gets bigger as well. Im pretty sure anyway. Here is my proposed build for Magmortar with Choice Scarf (to rememy his lacking speed):

Modest Nature
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower / Overheat
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice
- Focus Blast
With 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe EVs it can outspeed a standard Starmie, Weavile and Aerodactyl. Hidden power Ice for ground types and bulky dragons.

 

[Magpie]

I wouldn't be able to have a Thunderbolting Magmar, as he can't learn it. So I guess I'd have to evolve him to get the best from him move wise. For some reason I thought Magmar could learn Thunderbolt.

Hidden Power Ice is an idea, but I've had trouble getting the right Hidden Power in the past. It's certainly something to consider.

 

[Plapti]

Here's a suggestion:

Magmortar @ Life Orb/Wise Glasses
Hasty/Naive
Flash Fire

Ummm...KoL, Magmortar doesn't get Flash Fire. He gets Flame Body. We all wish he could get an ability like that.

 

[KoL]

Ummm...KoL, Magmortar doesn't get Flash Fire. He gets Flame Body. We all wish he could get an ability like that.

Whoops, my bad, I was rushing when I made that post.

I do definitely wish Magmortar had Flash Fire though.

 

[Sem]

Let's try and avoid having you evolve magmar into ugly and fat magmortar. D:

Magmar
Jolly
Muscle Band
-Fire Punch/Flare Blitz
-Thunder Punch
-Brick Break/Cross Chop
-Confuse Ray/Faint Attack

EVs... oh, let's say 200 Attack, 56 Special Defense, 252 Speed.

Fire Punch/Flare Blitz obviously for stab. Magmar has pretty low Defense and shouldn't survive more than one or two hits, so recoil shouldn't be that much of a problem, though Flare Blitz is an egg move.

Thunder Punch, also an egg move, but it's your only defense against Water-types.

Brick Break/Cross Chop is for Rock-types. Brick Break does decent damage and is dependable, Cross Chop sacrifices accuracy for power if that's what you want, though it too is an egg move xP

Confuse Ray, as most people should know, is my love, and it should be your love too. Basically just hope you're lucky and if you are an opponent's pokemon or even team could be utterly screwed. Faint Attack is just a filler, but does provide coverage against psychics and ghosts.

 

[Magpie]

I'd be so happy if I could keep him as a Magmar, and since I was going to breed for the correct nature anyway, the egg moves shouldn't be too much trouble. Once I figure out who to get those moves off XD

I'm liking that moveset, especially with Confuse Ray. If luck is on my side Magmar could potentially stay in a lot longer and deal some good damage. I'd probably stick with Brick Break, just for the accuracy and again, if Confuse Ray is working in my favor I could deal a good couple of blows with it.

Thanks Sem. I may end up going with this just because I can keep good old Magmar ^^

 

[Ruko]

Magmar
65  HP
95  Atk
57  Def
100 Sp. Atk
85  Sp. Def
93  Spd

Magmortar
75 HP
95 Atk
67 Def
125 Sp. Atk
95 Sp. Def
83    Spd

Magmar has 10 more in base speed, which may not seem like much, but it's right at the crucial line between 80 and 110 where every little bit helps. Magmortar on the other hand has 10 more in everything except attack. Special attack gets 25 more.

With Sem's set, you could potentially get rid of any of the physical attacks for Overheat as a secondary, special STAB. It'll catch anything that tries walling you off-guard, but will potentially only have one use [for stat lowering] and cost you a slight bit of coverage. The choice is yours.


And for a different moveset:
Magmar@Grip Claw
Timid Nature
Confuse Ray / Smokescreen
Lava Plume
Psychic
Fire Spin

Lava Plume has a 30% chance to burn and a power of 80, Flamethrower has 10% and power of 95. with Magmar's Defense I like the increased burn chance.
Confuse Ray for mostly obvious reasons
Psychic for coverage
Fire Spin to compound damage with a burn, should you get it, and prevent fleeing from confusion or lowered Accuracy. Also as somewhat of a filler.

Barrier, Toxic, Mach Punch, Cross Chop/Focus Blast, protect, Endure could make valid replacements, but you should definitely have confuse ray over smokescreen if you don't have Fire spin to prevent the switch.
I say endure is a possiblity because you have Flame body and confuse ray. holding out for just that little bit more while taking an attack at the same time could work out pretty well with Magmar.
Cross Chop, because there really isn't another special move for Magmar to use
Mach Punch for Priority, and because I despise Weavile >>

As for EVs, with this I'd say full speed, and whatever split you like between Defense and special attack.

 

[Magpie]

Thanks for the exact stats, it just shows what my guide can't tell me. I just really hate Magmortar

 

[Ruko]

thanks again with the ponyta XD

and an idea I had... it'd be really risky and you'd lose all coverage you could have had, but you could get rid of psychic for smokescreen and have both Confuse Ray and smokescreen on it. Flash Fire entirely walls that, among being pretty well walled by all other Fire, water and rock types... while you can still burn the rest at least, fire would be mostly untouchable.

 

[Magpie]

Evasion clause could make life difficult if I had Smokescreen as part of my strategy. Without it, and if I was unlucky with Confuse Ray, Magmar won't last long. As far as I know, a lot of people use the Evasion Clause rule. I could be wrong of course XD

If Evasion clause is used a lot, then I think keeping coverage would help Magmar out in the long-run. Or I could try this moveset -

- Lava Plume (30% chance of burn + STAB)
- Confuse Ray (Obvious)
- Protect (To keep me alive with a bit of Confuse Ray luck, while Fire Spin works its magic)
- Fire Spin (To keep them in battle while burn+confusion+spin are active)

Of course, this has the same walling issues as with Smokescreen. Gah! So much to think about! XD

 

[KoL]

I don't think Evasion Clause covers moves like Smokescreen, since usually the opponent can restore their lost accuracy by switching out (although Fire Spin does trap them for several turns.) Moves such as Double Team and Minimize have to be removed via Haze, Roar etc., so they are a lot more powerful. Also, if Magmar were to KO an opponent Pokemon, he'd have to re-apply Smokescreen onto the next Pokemon, whereas Double Team/Minimize is there to stay regardless of how many opponents you take out. You should be OK with Smokescreen, even with Evasion Clause.

 

[Ruko]

Like KOL said, smokescreen and flash are effective ways of getting around the Evasion clause, or I wouldn't have have suggested it XD

Fire Spin prevents them from escaping, and the grip claw should allow you enough time to kill them before they can switch should you choose to go with Smokescreen. the benefit of smokescreen over protect is that you could score an attack as one of theirs misses. It all balances out on how many times you use smokescreen. One smokescreen will lower their accuracy to 75%, two and it will be 60%, 3 will be 50%, and I wouldn't do any more than that, because as you can see they get relatively less effective as you use them. Two smokescreens would seem like the safest bet.

Confusion is a 50% chance of attacking themself, compound with one smokescreen they'll have a 37.5% chance of attacking successfully, then 30%, then 25%. Again, two smokescreens would seem best, but one looks like plenty.

Protect over smokescreen guarantees that you're safe every other turn at least, but less damage will be done over all. Fire spin is more likely to wear off before they get killed too. Grip Claw allows it to always last a full five turns.

That's everything assuming you choose not to go with coverage... it would seem better to try out a set that doesn't use Psychic first, and then teach psychic if you don't like them [since it's a TM]

 

[Magpie]

I see. The Smokescreen/Confuse Ray/Fire Spin combo seems like a great idea then. I didn't realise that moves like Flash and Smokescreen weren't covered by Evasion clause.

And the idea of testing it first without Psychic is also a good suggestion too. I know I still have a Psychic TM, so testing both movesets out will be easy enough.

Magmar @ Grip Claw
Timid Nature
- Lava Plume
- Confuse Ray
- Fire Spin
- Smokescreen/Psychic

I'll give both ideas a shot, and pick the one thats works best.

Thanks for your help everyone! And I didn't have to evolve Magmar ^^