Do you watch the Pokemon anime?

[Carmen Lopez]

Yes, this topic is overdone, but I don't see it anywhere on the first page and people's opinions change. Plus I find it's a good place to start if you're new here. But yeah, do you watch the anime? Why or why not.

I used to watch the anime like crazy up until Hoenn came along. I didn't exactly find May and Max appealing...okay I'm being nice. They annoyed me to death. If I'm honest however, the anime lost it's luster for me during the endless filler of Johto Master Quest. Amazing theme song and a few good episodes aside, it just got dull.

And then there was Sinnoh and I started getting into again. People got character development, Paul, the battles were pretty good, Team Galactic and J made excellent villians, Paul, and Pokemon evolved. Sure it had it's flaws (Team Rocket reached their nadir here for example), but DP was largely a huge improvement. At this point however, I only watched episodes when their was a Pokemon or character I wanted to see.

I haven't watched a single episode of Black and White after the first episode because I don't like what I've been hearing via word of mouth. Team Rocket got cooler but the worst aspects of Pokemon returned with a vengeance: cutesy annoying Pokemon that won't evolve, annoying female character, and Trip because he's not Paul I will admit to that. Plus there's just not anything that's caught my interest. You can really take my opinion with a grain of salt here because I haven't watched it, like I said.

Oh, and I don't buy the fact that I'm not in the target demographic anymore. That's no excuse for sucking. I'm not in the target demographic for My Little Pony or Avatar either, but there we go.

 

[ShinyZekrom009]

I used to watch it a lot, right up until Sinnoh. Since then, I've barely watched it, only seeing a bit here and there. I'm the most knowledgeable about the ones with Ash, Brook, Max, and May(All Hoenn, plus Battle Frontier). I would watch it more if I didn't have more interesting things to do, and if I wasn't so busy.

 

[Sir Red]

Oh, and I don't buy the fact that I'm not in the target demographic anymore. That's no excuse for sucking. I'm not in the target demographic for My Little Pony or Avatar either, but there we go.

The way that I look at the Pokemon Anime is that it's a cash-in of sorts for the games. It's not as bad a shilling of merch as a lot shows, because it really doesn't try to sell you new toys every week by introducing some random new thing like Power Rangers would. But the main purpose of it is to show off the new Pokemon, new characters and new region from the most recent game. The Anime is more a vehicle for the whole franchise then it is trying to be a good show on its own.

When you look at Avatar, that was show made as an original premise and was created solely for the show itself. Thus the creators were focusing only only telling the story in the show and they actually wanted to tell a story. Plus, the damn show actually ended.

MLP is a bit closer to Pokemon, because they are both TV shows for kids toys, so that is more comparable here. However, MLP: FiM is more about the characters. The purpose behind the show feels more to be entertaining then it does to simply show off the characters and merchandise so that kids recognize it at the stores. Like Avatar it seems to be that they wanted to tell a story (even though it is episodic in story format as opposed to Avatar telling an over-arcing story) and put that as the main purpose behind it.

When telling a good story and being entertaining are the focal point a children's series can be very entertaining. It also helps that neither of those shows really talks down to the viewer. The same goes for shows like Adventure Time. They are interesting enough and have enough silly humor, action and bright colors to bring kids in. Once they are in, the well-written humor and characters makes the shows successful and worth watching.

I'm wondering if Pokemon not being so lame has something to do with it being originally a Japanese show and then translated. Though it being a never-ending series doesn't exactly help things. :x

 

[Carmen Lopez]

Your explanation works better than just the "you're too old to be watching this show" bit. Still it's a bit painful to watch the mediocrity at times.

I really don't think the fact that it's translated is an issue. People keep saying the Japanese version is better but I don't really see how it can be. Different VAs and musical scores can only go so far when the fundamental annoyances are the same. Piplup and Team Rocket were just as annoying in Japanese as they were in English <<

 

[Picnicker Virgil]

I don't watch the anime very often. If it's on when I'm watching TV then I'll usually stop and check it out but I never make an effort to catch up. It's not a very good show, but I like watching it 'cause it shows you things that you can't see in the games. If I'm really into a certain Pokemon or planning on giving one to a character or something, then I'll usually watch that Pokemon's episode to see what it's like. I think the show is fun, but the short answer to this question is no, I don't watch the anime.

 

[Sir Red]

I really don't think the fact that it's translated is an issue. People keep saying the Japanese version is better but I don't really see how it can be. Different VAs and musical scores can only go so far when the fundamental annoyances are the same. Piplup and Team Rocket were just as annoying in Japanese as they were in English <<

Oh no, it's not because it is translated that I'm citing it being Japanese created. I'm not one to argue subs and dubs and all of that (especially because I mostly prefer the dubs :x). I'm saying that the story format and the fact that there is less need for their to be a good story could have something to do with it being Japanese.

Especially in more recent years American animated children's show have much more structure and each episode kind of has a point to it. The same cannot be said about Pokemon (outside of introducing a Pokemon, but that just brings back my product vehicle argument). In a show when you don't have episodes that have plot advancement you usually want the episode to serve some purpose. Whether that be character development and interactions or to just be zany and entertaining. Pokemon sadly fails to achieve any of this in most of their non-Ash big fight episodes.

Hell, character development is one of the biggest reasons Pokemon sucks a lot of the time. Most of the characters just run in circles (and let's not even get into the nerfing of Ash xD). After they did such a great job with Ash, and especially some of his Pokemon, in Sinnoh they have really done nothing with Unova. Everyone is just kind of there, and things stay the same. Or if somebody does learn something and grow in an episode, it is suddenly forgotten and status quo is restored.

With Pokemon I don't think they want Ash to ever change or grow (same goes for some of his long lasting companions, namely Brock). Sure, they may change a bit over the years but that is inevitable when you have so many different people writing them over that stretch. However, they two of them are very much the same characters that they were when they showed up with a few tweaks here and there. Because the series is not really about Ash and Brock or any of the other trainers. It is there to show off the Pokemon. I'm not sure if Team Rocket is still cool in Unova, but it would not surprise me if they are back to their old selves.

It's such a shame really, because Pokemon could be such a good show. Nobody just seems willing to try something different with it and step away from the status quo because it makes money and they think kids will watch it anyways.

Edit: Oh, I also weep because of the fight scenes. I get that they are an Anime studio and don't have the biggest budget to properly animate a fight scene. But continuously repeated cutscenes kills battles for me after a while, especially after being spoiled with shows like Avatar.

 

[precita]

Y

I used to watch the anime like crazy up until Hoenn came along. I didn't exactly find May and Max appealing...okay I'm being nice. They annoyed me to death.

Why did they annoy you? That after how seriously terrible Misty's character was in Johto, (she was disliked by most of the fandom at the time), that they decided to freshen up the anime by bringing in a more enjoyable female protagonist who was probably the better handled characters of the show? Granted I don't care much for Max, but the Hoenn group itself had a great dynamic.

The whole reason why Misty stayed gone and faded away into oblivion was largely due to the fact that May's success paved the way for all the female companions that came in after.

Misty's character was only good for Kanto and Orange Islands. After that she became incredibly bland and one-dimensional, (although to be fair, the same happened to Brock) and it was refreshing to see a new female protagonist.

 

[Linkachu]

Especially in more recent years American animated children's show have much more structure and each episode kind of has a point to it. The same cannot be said about Pokemon (outside of introducing a Pokemon, but that just brings back my product vehicle argument). In a show when you don't have episodes that have plot advancement you usually want the episode to serve some purpose. Whether that be character development and interactions or to just be zany and entertaining. Pokemon sadly fails to achieve any of this in most of their non-Ash big fight episodes.

Umm... I don't really want to start a quality debate in this thread because it's already getting off topic, but I strongly disagree with this statement. Aside from that fact that I've personally seen very little change in American cartoons over the past decade (for better or worse), saying that they have a more structured story than a show like Pokemon isn't very accurate. Even considering what the Pokemon TV show is (one big damn advert aimed at children) each episode or set of episodes has a very clear purpose, a structured flow of events, and subtle to major character development (Iris and Excadrill say hi); and each episode does advance the plot to some extent even if it's simply "Ash and co. continue on to X city/town/etc." It's not Avatar quality storytelling, and it's not the Pokemon Adventures/Special comix... but it never has been and was never meant to be. And for the most part, it's always been a helluva lot more story-focused than most American cartoons, especially those that focus on inane comedy and don't give a damn about character development. Just... no Red. No. ;x

Personally I was always under the impression that most folks couldn't stand the Pokemon Anime characters, found the plots (if not the entire sagas) too repetitive and lighthearted, and disliked the fact that the show's been going on forever. Many longtime viewers also disliked that Best Wishes was treated both as a continuation and a reboot/tribute. And possibly most annoying of all, Ash never ages. He's like a frelling robot. XD

But getting back to Carmen's original question now.

Yup, I still watch the Anime. Back during the Sinnoh saga I watched every episode dubbed and subbed, but this season I've mostly just focused on the subbed version. Best Wishes hasn't been as good as the Sinnoh saga but it certainly hasn't been bad either. It still has the same charm as previous Pokemon seasons and keeps me watching for the same reasons I've always done so: the Pokemon, the music, the battles, and to a smaller extent the human characters. I do enjoy the relationships and dynamics between the human characters and Cilan/Dento has been a riot since he entered the series. As much as I loved Brock, Cilan was a nice change.

Also, Oshawott. Oshawott is the new Buizel and I loves him.

 

[precita]

Personally I was always under the impression that most folks couldn't stand the Pokemon Anime characters, found the plots (if not the entire sagas) too repetitive and lighthearted, and disliked the fact that the show's been going on forever. Many longtime viewers also disliked that Best Wishes was treated both as a continuation and a reboot. And possibly most annoying of all, Ash never ages. He's like a frelling robot. XD

Agreed, either that or they only like Misty/Brock because of nostalgia or their childhood, and they never give new characters a chance. Although to be fair many people originally stopped watching the show sometime in the middle of Johto, so when they tried to return to the series at some point when Hoenn or DP were airing, they saw the show was too different than what they remembered and couldn't get back into it.

Yup, I still watch the Anime. Back during the Sinnoh saga I watched every episode dubbed and subbed, but this season I've mostly just focused on the subbed version. Best Wishes hasn't been as good as the Sinnoh saga but it certainly hasn't been bad either. It still has the same charm as previous Pokemon seasons and keeps me watching for the same reason I've always done so: the Pokemon, the music, the battles, and to a smaller extent the human characters. I do enjoy the relationships and dynamics between the human characters and Cilan/Dento has been a riot since he entered the series. As much as I loved Brock, Cilan was a nice change.

Agreed. Best Wishes does feel like a major step down from DP, and even AG for that matter. I'd probably place it above Johto and Orange Islands though.

Seems to me that making Ash a worse battler again, having him with lots of pokemon, giving him an absolutely terrible main rival (Trip), and mishandling Iris is its weak points. You can really tell that now that the Contests have been dropped the writers are actually struggling to properly develop Iris' character, for the same reasons they had trouble with Misty over a decade ago.

 

[Linkachu]

Agreed. Best Wishes does feel like a major step down from DP, and even AG for that matter. I'd probably place it above Johto and Orange Islands though.

I think I'm finding Best Wishes more entertaining than AG actually (mostly because I enjoy the combination of Iris and Cilan more than May and Max), but I preferred Team Rocket in AG. As refreshing as it was seeing TR in a different role and acting, well, badass, I always found their goofiness amusing and you always knew that a TR centric episode was going to be great or emotional as hell. When Arbok and Weezing left? I bawled like a baby. XD

The rivals were also much better in AG, namely Harley, but I have a soft spot for Kenyan.

 

[Carmen Lopez]

Y

I used to watch the anime like crazy up until Hoenn came along. I didn't exactly find May and Max appealing...okay I'm being nice. They annoyed me to death.

Why did they annoy you? That after how seriously terrible Misty's character was in Johto, (she was disliked by most of the fandom at the time), that they decided to freshen up the anime by bringing in a more enjoyable female protagonist who was probably the better handled characters of the show? Granted I don't care much for Max, but the Hoenn group itself had a great dynamic.

You assume that just because I dislike May, I'm a Misty-champion? No way. I liked Misty prior to the Johto filler-fest, but she got stale as well. May, just well...I just didn't like her. I went back and watched a Battle Frontier episode and just cringed because it brought back all the horrible memories. She was certainly not handled better than Dawn was. In fact, the only thing that was better about May was her Pokemon team (Blaziken ftw)!

Max was redundant and was just an annoying child character.

 

[Sir Red]

On the subject of Female leads, early Misty was my favorite because she had the best interactions with Ash. Plus, at the time, we didn't know that they would eventually replace her so any possible interactions between her and Ash got the shippers really excited for something happening down the road.

I really like May, only because she ended up having some of my all-time favorite Pokemon. Plus, I loved that she actually evolved her Pokemon. For whatever reason I've always gotten annoyed when the Anime characters never evolve their Pokemon. I get the purpose behind it from a TV show standpoint, as the unevolved forms usually serve a person (Pikachu - mascot, Piplup - comic relief), but it still kills me inside a bit to not see an Empoleon running around and destroying things. But May seemed to always evolve her Pokemon, especially when she showed up in Sinnoh with some kind of a super team.

I don't even know where I stand on Dawn anymore, to be honest. Sometimes I liked her, other times I couldn't stand her. For the most part she was just kind of there as far as I was concerned. Though that's probably because the majority of what I watched in Sinnoh where Ash's big battles. |D

I haven't watched very much BW to have any idea how Iris is as a character, though.

But I think we can agree the best character ever was Tracy. Nuff said.

 

[precita]

Y

I used to watch the anime like crazy up until Hoenn came along. I didn't exactly find May and Max appealing...okay I'm being nice. They annoyed me to death.

Why did they annoy you? That after how seriously terrible Misty's character was in Johto, (she was disliked by most of the fandom at the time), that they decided to freshen up the anime by bringing in a more enjoyable female protagonist who was probably the better handled characters of the show? Granted I don't care much for Max, but the Hoenn group itself had a great dynamic.

You assume that just because I dislike May, I'm a Misty-champion? No way. I liked Misty prior to the Johto filler-fest, but she got stale as well. Mqay, just well...I just didn't like her. I went back and watched a Battle Frontier episode and just cringed because it brought back all the horrible memories. She was certainly not handled better than Dawn was. In fact, the only thing that was better about May was her Pokemon team (Blaziken ftw)!

Max was redundant and was just an annoying child character.

Dawn was handled better in terms of appeals, but a lot of other things were worse. Her pokemon team didn't go through much development outside Mamoswine and her rivalries were poor and didn't grow. Dawn's development was largely the same as May's except she remained roughly the same throughout her run. Granted I like Dawn but she didn't change much at all unless you count her battle skills.

Dawn was a good character, but she was purposely designed to be a female Ash for 8 year old Japanese girls. May generally had better character growth, rivals, humor, and a slightly better rounded pokemon team.

I'm not sure why you're making this out to be a main girl thing anyway, I like both decently well enough.

 

[Carmen Lopez]

Dawn was a good character, but she was purposely designed to be a female Ash for 8 year old Japanese girls. May generally had better character growth, rivals, humor, and a slightly better rounded pokemon team.

I'm not sure why you're making this out to be a main girl thing anyway, I like both decently well enough.

There was actual character growth in Hoenn? I don't remember that at all aside from Sceptile. Honestly your posts are making me want to rewatch Advance Generation and Battle Frontier to see if they were as bad as I remember. Maybe time heals all wounds...except Max though. That one won't ever heal. Also while character development is good, it doesn't necessarily make a character likeable. I didn't mention it in my other posts, but Dawn and Piplup were also annoying. Her character development was my only reason for watching episodes based around her.

And I was making it out to be a main girl thing, what? You like some characters and you dislike others. In my case it has absolutely nothing to do with them being the female companion. I'm definitely not some nostalgia geek. I genuinely enjoyed the earlier series because people had more flavor and the interactions were funny even if the Pokemon wouldn't evolve and the battles were terrible.

Oh good grief, I'm all off topic, but I like the discussion ♥

 

[precita]

Dawn was a good character, but she was purposely designed to be a female Ash for 8 year old Japanese girls. May generally had better character growth, rivals, humor, and a slightly better rounded pokemon team.

I'm not sure why you're making this out to be a main girl thing anyway, I like both decently well enough.

There was actual character growth in Hoenn? I don't remember that at all aside from Sceptile. Honestly your posts are making me want to rewatch Advance Generation and Battle Frontier to see if they were as bad as I remember. Maybe time heals all wounds...except Max though. That one won't ever heal. Also while character development is good, it doesn't necessarily make a character likeable. I didn't mention it in my other posts, but Dawn and Piplup were also annoying. Her character development was my only reason for watching episodes based around her.

And I was making it out to be a main girl thing, what? You like some characters and you dislike others. In my case it has absolutely nothing to do with them being the female companion. I'm definitely not some nostalgia geek. I genuinely enjoyed the earlier series because people had more flavor and the interactions were funny even if the Pokemon wouldn't evolve and the battles were terrible.

Oh good grief, I'm all off topic, but I like the discussion ♥

There was plenty of character development in AG. Ash himself went from being that clueless kid in Kanto/Johto to a more mature and slightly more experienced trainer an acted as a mentor of sorts to May and Max. May herself went through much development in and outside contest episodes especially considering how helpless she was at Hoenn's start. Max had his admiration for his father, the Jirachi movie, the Ralts episode, and several fillers. Jessie started her coordinator career and James showed a sensitive side with Chimeco and Mime Jr.

And then in terms of the actual Pokemon, Ash's Hoenn team was at the time one of his strongest and best handled teams of the series. Drew also went through development with May and Harley was a great antagonist.

If anything the only character who didn't develop was Brock but then again Brock never goes through development.

 

[Stark]

The last episode I watched had Aerodactyl in, had a duel with Charizard.

It was pretty neat.

 

[Linkachu]

... and her rivalries were poor and didn't grow.

Zoey says hi. D:

But I think we can agree the best character ever was Tracy. Nuff said.

Oh hoh, previously true but he's got competition now! Paul has stolen the hearts of many fangirls (and fanboys!), and Cilan is so eccentric at times that it's hard not to like him.

Tough competition indeed. 8D

"But everyone knows Ash is the best character!" ... said no one. |D

 

[precita]

Zoey was an example of that, her rivalry with Dawn went absolutely nowhere and we never even got to see Dawn beat her. Also since it was a friendly rivalry, we never saw much competition between the two and it just got boring.

Zoey may have had some of the best contest battles in the series, but the character herself and her rivalry was very dull. I much prefered Ursula, who despite losing to Dawn 3 times in a row, was probably the only actual interesting rivalry Dawn had. I don't think I need to mention how bad Kenny and Nando turned out to be.

Also one thing I like about BW is both Iris and Cilan have rivals. Misty and Brock never had any real rivals throughout their entire run, so actually seeing the, "sidekicks" get their own rivalries is a plus.

 

[Sir Red]

The last episode I watched had Aerodactyl in, had a duel with Charizard.

It was pretty neat.

LoN ilu xD

But I think we can agree the best character ever was Tracy. Nuff said.

Oh hoh, previously true but he's got competition now! Paul has stolen the hearts of many fangirls (and fanboys!), and Cilan is so eccentric at times that it's hard not to like him.

I have heard wonderfully absurd things about Cilan (mainly from parody comics that RX has posted in chat xP) that lead me to believe that he is worthy of best companion throne.

Also Katie, where as Zoe was not a bad rival for Dawn I still prefer the combination of Harley (his wonderfully evil self) and Drew to her. Also Jesse was a fun throw-in every now and again. And really, Zoe would never measure up to Drew. His bishie levels left her in the dust. (Though child Zoe is adorable.)

 

[Carmen Lopez]

Oh Zoey...as much as I like Dawn's character development, her rivals didn't interest me at all xD. Also, is it bad that I don't remember much about Drew at all? I think my brain died by the time they introduced him. And all I remember is Harley being gratingly petty. Although his Wigglytuff was pretty awesome.

Pfft, Paul made Sinnoh for me (if you somehow couldn't tell by my first post). That's even considering how hard it is to actually defend the guy. I used to hate him, but then I realized that Paul wasn't supposed to be the bad guy...and I started liking him. Wut indeed. But Paul calling out Ash's faith alone approach to Pokemon in the episode Aiding the Enemy was probably one of my favorite moments ever. I think Paul was an audience surrogate in that instance. Because come on, even as little kids we were screaming at the TV whenever Ash pulled some 'heart of the cards' stuff.

 

[precita]

Definitely. The best parts of DP were Paul, Pokehunter J and Team Galactic. I also think DP had the best Gym battles of the series, and some of the Contests were good as well ignoring how dull the contest cast was this time around.

I think the lowpoints of DP, aside from the absurd length, was just the staleness of both Brock and Team Rocket. Good thing they changed Team Rocket up in BW.

About the only thing worth liking about Brock in DP was his awesome Croagunk, other than that he completely died as a character and should of left back when Battle Frontier ended at the latest.

By the time DP started both Brock and Team Rocket's antics were so played out that they pretty much dragged down a lot of the potential freshness DP had at the time. I think the writers acknowledged this too, which is why Brock is finally gone and Team Rocket no longer appear in every episode, thankfully.

 

[Coreysawrus]

I watched a bits from the original series up until mid Johto, it was never anything I watched often, I think the episode I remember liking the most was the Ghost of Maiden's Peak.

In terms of characters, I felt Misty had no need to be in the group and I didn't think her feisty personality was consistent enough and was developed far enough but that was probably due to the show being aimed at kids. Brock just seemed like a Pokedex with a recurring gag that got old pretty fast. Ash was just an idiot who lucked out quite often. The only other partner I saw was Tracey while I didn't see much of him he did seem to be a great addition and I liked seeing his sketches and stuff.

 

[Doubled]

I look at it now and then, and I'll watch the main high lights (like with the DP Pokemon League match? Effing, awesome.), but I'm not sure I'm going to bother with Unova. I honestly think that they had something good in the DP saga and let the quality go when they introduced BW. Actually, I think there's no denying that the show has been losing quality since Johto, but I digress.

In my opinion, I think the main issue is, as pointed out earlier, the shows never end, as in it has become pretty predictable. Sure, Ash will gain all 8 badges, maybe obtain some badass Pokemon (Freaking Torterra AND Infernape? Hell yes), but in the end, its obvious that he's going to lose and not win the league, even if they have to go total haxors like with DP in order to do so. In my opinion, the show probably would have done wonders if they ended Ash's reign after the Orange Islands and went with a new protagonist for each generation, and keep the episodes limited.

The other issue is the fact that it is so DRAWN OUT. Let me explain. I understand that they need to keep their viewers entertained until the next generation, but still. It takes, give or take, a week or so to defeat the games. I'm not saying that the show should take 8 episodes to be done, but...I dunno, there just isn't ANY plot other than New Character needs help and the gang have to help them; I HATE those. Maybe...I dunno, twenty or so episodes per season, that way they can squeeze every bit of nutrient out of the cash cow before having to use formula...er... filler...er...you get what I mean. Basically, keep it to the episodes with gym matches, Pokemon capture, evolution, rival battles, you know, the important stuff, with maybe a few filler thrown in. If they still need episodes, they could pull an Orange Islands, a Battle Frontier, or make a separate series for a bit and continue where they left off.

And the characters... after a while of " 'Hi! My name is Ash!' 'I'm Cilan'" etc... it gets annoying. CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT, it must exist, not just the NPC side characters. I REALLY wish that they could think of more original characters like Tracy, or at least not have to borrow from the games AS much. What I also want is for the same quality character interaction to be present in the anime that we have in the movies. The characters show more development in just an hour or so than in twenty episodes.

In my opinion, it wouldn't be as bad if they did this. Are they going to do this? Nope.

 

[Linkachu]

Actually, I think there's no denying that the show has been losing quality since Johto, but I digress.

I'd deny that. Much of people's memories from the Kanto saga is nostalgia but the Sinnoh saga was just genuinely pretty good. The writing had improved, Paul presented a deeper rivalry for Ash than any other rival to date (Gary included), the battles were more creative, Ash actually worked for his badges instead of being given half of 'em (Oh Kanto...), the majority of his Pokemon team actually evolved, and having Dawn's plotline breaking things up was refreshing. I'm sure others would debate that the Hoenn saga was equally good because it was the first season that made notable changes (replacing Misty, not giving Ash all three starters, Ash actually evolved and actively trained his Pokemon, etc.). Both Sinnoh and Hoenn were just effing long.

Which brings me to the rest of your post... I agree with everything else you've said except the amount of episodes per season. Like it or not, the way Japan handles popular Anime shows that bring in a lot of cash is to keep them airing endlessly week to week until they're no longer profitable (a steady release of episodes = more viewers = more bluray/movie/manga/etc. sales). Expecting a series like Pokemon to only contain 20 or so episodes per season is a bit crazy considering how many viewers it likely has, how much cash the TV/movie series as a whole rakes in, and the fact that the show and movies help sell the video games, merchandise, etc. The major reason why we've been stuck with Ash and Pikachu so damn long is based around finances too; the writers worry that replacing those two would lose viewers. Knowing all of this the best one could hope for is a shorter saga around the length of the Indigo League, but even that one wasn't necessarily short.

Asking for better quality plots and episodes is one thing, and I agree that we could definitely use shorter sagas and more spin-off sagas like the Orange Islands and Battle Frontier (which were both great imo), but we gotta be reasonable too. There's a reason why Pokemon, Naruto, One Piece, and other popular, long running shows in Japan never go on lengthy hiatus.

 

[precita]

I think it would be better if each region was only 100 episodes. That would give them enough time to cover the Gyms (and Contests), the various capture/evolution eps, and eps dedicated to the villains and rivalries.

Kanto, Orange and Battle Frontier were the shortest sagas with the least amount of fillers, which is why there was less complaining about their pacing.

Unova ends with 108 episodes (I know there's another arc about N, but the league essentially ends the saga), and Hoenn ended around 131 episodes, which wasn't too bad either.

Johto was 157 episodes long, which is why it had the most amount of filler, and DP was 191 episodes long, but with less filler, but still spending nearly 200 eps in the same region was not the best of ideas.

Also think about the kids, most of whom grow out of the series before it ends. This is why many of us originally stopped watching back in the middle of Johto, its when we all recognized they were just stretching out the arc until the Ruby/Sapphire games came out.

 

[ShinyGlaceon]

I watch it sometimes,but not too much since Best Wishes

 

[precita]

Actually, I think there's no denying that the show has been losing quality since Johto, but I digress.

The Johto seasons were very poorly received when they were originally airing. That was actually the saga that drove half the original fanbase away from watching the series, mainly because most people never survived through those endless Johto fillers back in the day. Usually when you ask most of those original Kanto fans when they stopped watching the anime, they reply with something like, "I stopped watching somewhere in the middle of Johto."

I'm also utterly convinced that this is the reason the writers abandoned the original trio in the first place. When Johto first started they got rid of Tracey to bring Brock back, making it look like splitting up the original trio was a mistake and they tried to get things, "back to basics" so to speak with Ash/Misty/Brock again. However as Johto progressed, the arc was even more hated than Orange Islands was, and a lot of people started to get really bored of Misty somewhere around the middle/tail-end.

So after that they tried to revamp/re-tool the series again, which led to Misty being axed, May and the Contests being brought in, and the show pretty much sticking with that formula for the following generations.

Its quite likely to me that Misty's departure wasn't intended to be permanent at first, they even gave her numerous specials during the Hoenn era to sort of keep her character "alive" on the sidelines. The writers may have originally planned another original trio reunion sometime after Hoenn ended, but axed the idea again once it became obvious that people stopped caring that Misty was gone, and likely after May and the Contests became popular in her place. This is why Dawn was pretty much written to be so similar to May as well, they wanted to keep the same type of character around for another gen even though they had to switch the R/S girl for the DP one due to advertising.

So the short version is, if Johto wasn't as hated as it was and if most people didn't find Misty stale and useless during that arc, both Hoenn and DP probably would have been exactly like Johto was, with the original trio continuing into them. The mere fact that they kept Brock for so long shows that Misty's early axing from the anime probably had to do with the core fanbase at the time, rather than the writers. Of course this is all speaking 10 years ago, most of the people who were watching back then are all 20+ year old adults now so it doesn't matter.

 

[precita]

I'll agree with the fact that the majority of Johto sucked. The fillers were bad, Misty was horrible, and the show itself was just boring. By the time Johto was ending I remember almost the entire fandom hated Misty at the time and would constantly talk about how boring and useless she was. It honestly shocks me that people still think Misty is a good character, but I just chalk it off to blind nostalgia.

The recent Best Wishes saga was pretty terrible too, which is a shame because it started off with so much potential. I did like Cilan and Iris was OK, but the rest of it was extremely lackluster. I think the only thing we can really say it did good was finally getting rid of Brock.

Kanto and Sinnoh were the best two arcs, but Hoenn was pretty decent as well and had the best female protagonist in May. Had Dawn not become bland as DP progressed though, she might have been my favorite. Generally I'd say that while Kanto wins for the best humor and character interaction, the show hit its high point during the Contest era in Hoenn and Sinnoh, and crash landed after it ended.

 

[PokeMasterFrost]

Well i watched till Hoenn, then I stoped. The thing was Ash didn't grow up. Not the age, I am fine with 10, but he is so childish and anoying!!
I do like the X and Y series, Serena is my fav now! Just because she has the same eye and hair colour as mine! And Ash looks older! Whait, he is 10. He just got teeth..

 

[WhitePhoenix423]

I used to love the anime, but I was forced to stop when I came into foster care.

Thing was, the mother I was with was very anti-Pokemon. She called it demonic and said it ruined my life. She took everything Pokemon-related away from me and I'm sure she either sold it or burned it. Or just threw it away.I'm not in that house anymore, and I don't have to worry about it.

Besides, watching the anime now... it doesn't appeal to me as much. I might start getting into the XY anime, but I don't see that very likely unless I have plenty of free time on my hands.

 

[Rinoa Heartilly]

I loved the adventures through Kanto to Johto but after that, it lost something that it once had for me. I'm not sure what it was but personally, it was boring and even angered me at times. Which is rather silly, I know. I kept trying to go back to the other seasons to see if I'd eventually warm up to it but it just wasn't happening - no matter how many times I tried. So I stopped completely. I've heard good things about the most recent season but my interest is long dead in the animated series. I prefer the manga a thousand times more. ♥ (:

 

[Jariii]

I love Kanto and Johto for nostalgia but I am really religiously watching the new X and Y anime it is so AWSOME you wont believe

 

[Sticky-Pink-lemon]

I love all of them, i've watched every episode and every episode of the Kalos adventures so far! X3

 

[Shady]

The anime is where I entered the fandom and I came to own several of the VHS episode sets and early films (and still actually have a small fraction of them) but it lost it's appeal for me at Hoenn. May irritated me; she's introduced as a little bitch and was quite a dumbshit as a beginner, especially for a gym leader's kid. I also found her unattractive psychically. As were the pokemon designs.

So I was turned off for years though Sinnoh had caught enough of my interest to give about thirteen episodes a try but it didn't hold my attention especially when I got to the Turtwig episode and it was an exact copy of 'Bulbasaur and the Hidden Village'.

A few more years passed, then recently I begun a nostalgia marathon of Kanto and Johto on youtube which includes filling in the gaps left by episodes I had never seen originally.
In addition the thought that I was passing judgement on Hoenn while barely knowing it and remembering even less began to unsettle me so I watched up until Brock met Mudkip. The Mudkip episode is the only one I really enjoyed for it's unique story line and touching portrayal of the non-womanizing side of Brock which I prefer.

Then I got into some episodes of the Battle Frontier series which presented the pokemon contests in an interesting fashion that almost makes me wish it had been introduced sooner and I will admit May's character had improved. My biggest beef with it was how James' and Meowth's voices make my mind cringe, they are horrible! I however love Ash's as it makes him sound the 2-3 years older he should be at that point (though he's not, that's one of the biggest turn offs for most fans is how all these years later Ash is still portrayed as a ten year old).

Also just the other night I watched the genosect film having been on a Mewtwo kick and It's completely senseless how another lab got a hold of that research and the Mew DNA to have created this new female Mewtwo. I could go on for at least another paragraph maybe two about it's poor development.

The first two generations remain the best in my eyes.

 

[Keleri]

I can't sit through the pokemon anime, it's far too repetitive, the dialog is terrible, the animation quality is low, and the battles are boring. I haven't watched it on TV since the beginning of the Johto league. The last episode I watched I think I downloaded because someone I follow was talking about an "epic showdown" between one of Ash's pokemon (grovyle?) and its "rival". The battle was about as epic as someone taking their two pokemon toys and making them fight. (MINE IS AN EVIL LAUGH!)

I miss the sense of mystery from the early episodes of the anime, but I'm not sure there's any way to get that back, short of making an anime-only region with palpable danger.

I keep forgetting to watch the miniseries with Red, though. The animation looked pretty sweet in that one. I think the movies have decent animation as well, I saw some gifs on tumblr that looked good. I should give them another chance.

 

[StellarWind Elsydeon]

Trust me. It's even more obnoxious than the main anime is. Literally is a shitty n00bfic given life. >>;

The X/Y series seems to be actually decent though.

 

[Lime307]

the black and white series was a tiny bit brutal at times. like, would you like to be an evolved bird that is commanded to attack an electric mouse that grabs you by the feet and smashes you to the ground? and dont you think its weird that nearly every fire type Ash gets, its been abandoned? Charmander was left on a rock...he found Cyndaquil in Cave because that where they were native...i dont know where he got Torchic...Chimchar...dont remember..Tepig left abandoned in a kind of warehouse area..and i havent seen any of X and Y yet...ahah

 

[precita]

The X/Y series seems to be actually decent though.

You mean the current saga? It's basically an expie of Hoenn so far. Literally everything about it reminds me of the early Hoenn episodes:

- Serena is a beginning trainer unsure of her goal and has no idea what to do (this is how May started out)
- Bonnie is the little kid sibling (Max as a girl basically)
- Ash only has one starter again (Froakie is like Treecko)
- The writers have gone back to a 4-person group, something we haven't had since Hoenn.
- Ash appears to have no main rival again at least so far (he had no major rival in Hoenn)

There are some minute difference like Clemont being different than Brock, but so much of it brings back memories of Hoenn. Granted I liked the Hoenn so I don't mind this stuff, but its really not all that different from what the show was 10 years ago.

 

[StellarWind Elsydeon]

Yes, there are definite resemblences to AdvaGen, except this time they seem to be doing it RIGHT.

For one, the sibling dynamics between Bonnie and Clemont are actually fun to watch and those two actually have some fucking character (unlike May and Max who both rolled from 'bland' to 'obnoxious'). Also the battles are FAR more creative (reminding me more of D/P in its better days than AdvaGen for sure) - and Team Rocket seem to have found a nice balance between the lovable goofballs that they have always been and actually being remotely competent (which is something they ATTEMPTED to do in BW and failed the fuck MISERABLY).

Actually, following how godawful B/W was, I suppose anything might seem like an improvement...

 

[precita]

For one, the sibling dynamics between Bonnie and Clemont are actually fun to watch and those two actually have some fucking character (unlike May and Max who both rolled from 'bland' to 'obnoxious').

This is all just early impressions though. Character dynamics in every saga are always more interesting in about the first 30 episodes than later on. After about 100 episodes I'm sure it'll degrade like every other characters personality. Also May probably had the best characterized personality of all the main girls that came into the show after Johto, so I'm not sure what you found bland about it. In fact the reason I like this group a lot so far is it reminds me of how well done the Hoenn one was, except instead of Brock just being "there" Clemont is actually part of the group.

Also the battles are FAR more creative (reminding me more of D/P in its better days than AdvaGen for sure) - and Team Rocket seem to have found a nice balance between the lovable goofballs that they have always been and actually being remotely competent (which is something they ATTEMPTED to do in BW and failed the fuck MISERABLY).

This I agree with, but again, its still only been 12 episodes.

You also haven't mentioned Serena, who basically comes across as an expie of early May with a rehash of Dawn's design. It's too bad it doesn't look like she's going to have any active quest this saga because contests didn't return in the games and there's not much else to have her do.