General Gaming Discussions

[Linkachu]

The topic for anything gaming related that doesn't really require a whole thread dedicated to it. We had something like this before, and I'm reviving it.

Post about any gaming news, videos, or stuffs that interests you, from any platform. If you want to spawn a proper topic from something mentioned here, go for it.

If you want to post something new in here but nobody else has posted for ages, feel free to bump the thread.

That is all.

I'll just leave you with a single image:

Rather interested in Generations being on 3DS.

 

[Doctor Oak]

While I'll probably pick it up, especially if - like Colours - the handheld version is essentially a whole new game, I'm still far more interested in the full console version.

Interestingly, they also confirm a PC version with the 3DS version. First PC Sonic game for a while.

 

[Linkachu]

While I'll probably pick it up, especially if - like Colours - the handheld version is essentially a whole new game, I'm still far more interested in the full console version.

Actually, same for me really. While I'm interested to see how this 3DS version will differ than the console version, and it'll be nice having a 3DS Sonic game, I'm definitely more interested in the console versions. Mind you, I can't wait to hear and see more about Sonic Generations in general.

 

[Doubled]

If it's for the 3DS as well, I wouldn't be too surprised if the games are treated like unleashed (I think we can all agree that the 360 and PS3 versions looked and played a bit better than the WII and PS2 version). Although, considering how well the graphics in Colo(u)rs worked out for the Wii, and how the 3DS was supposedly on par with it as far as graphics go, I might be in for a surprise. Although, like you two, I'm definately more interested in the PS3 and 360 version.

I'm also curious as to how the story will play out. Maybe Eggy snaps and says "If I can't kill you now, I'll just kill you in the past!" or something like that. Basically it sounds to me like the story will be about the same as any game in which meeting a character's past self would involve, but then again, who knows, this is Sonic Team we're talking about here. I also wonder if they'll give Classic Sonic a voice in all of this and if other younger characters might appear as well.

Maybe since there are 2 Sonics that might mean 2-Player will be in the game as well. Oh, and speaking of two Sonics, I'm already snickering at what Amy would say XD (Then again, I'm also frightened >_>; )

 

[Toastie]

Ah, this must be the Sonic game on the list of 3DS games from when it was first revealed. It is great that the 3DS is getting some PS360 exclusives that the Wii isn't. The 3DS release schedule for later this year is getting quite bulky with good titles. I don't really mind whether it differs from the home console versions, seeing as I don't own a Xbox 360 or a PS3.

 

[Doctor Oak]

I think it's very, very likely now that the reason there isn't a Wii version is simply that the game is going to be heading to its successor instead.

 

[Fumanshu]

Any news on Episode 2?

 

[Stark]

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=228212

This is looking to be super epic ^^

 

[Linkachu]

Q: What is StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm?

A: Heart of the Swarm is the first expansion set to Blizzard Entertainment's sci-fi real time strategy game, StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty. Heart of the Swarm continues the epic story from Wings of Liberty with an all-new campaign that focuses on Kerrigan, the erstwhile Queen of Blades. New multiplayer content will also be included in the expansion, as well as new features and upgrades to the Battle.net online platform.

I honestly hadn't heard anything about this coming whatsoever until... well, right now. XD
I'll need to look through the artwork when I have more free time, but one thing has immediately caught my attention. Kerrigan looks oddly... humanoid.

 

[Stark]

I honestly hadn't heard anything about this coming whatsoever until... well, right now. XD
I'll need to look through the artwork when I have more free time, but one thing has immediately caught my attention. Kerrigan looks oddly... humanoid.

Did you not finish the Wings of Liberty campaign?

And I'm *SO* jumping into the Beta ASAP. They were showing clips of it today on the GSL Super Tournament which was nifty of them

 

[Linkachu]

I honestly hadn't heard anything about this coming whatsoever until... well, right now. XD
I'll need to look through the artwork when I have more free time, but one thing has immediately caught my attention. Kerrigan looks oddly... humanoid.

Did you not finish the Wings of Liberty campaign?

And I'm *SO* jumping into the Beta ASAP. They were showing clips of it today on the GSL Super Tournament which was nifty of them

Would you shoot me or simply shake your head if I said no...? :'D

 

[Stark]

Would you shoot me or simply shake your head if I said no...? :'D

I'm nice, I'd just shoot you shake my head

Spoiler (do we not have tags? ): She gets un-Zergified at the end, but keeps her weird hair.

 

[Linkachu]

! =o

Welp, I'm adding a new game to my summer playlist now. Thanks LoN. :'D

 

[Doctor Oak]

Oh, oh, oh, please let me spend £40 on top of the original £40 for SCII to get the second third of the game that they didn't sell in SCII so I can not be able to play when I'm not online and not be able to play with anyone that doesn't speak German when I am!

Oh please, Blizzard, take my money!

 

[Dark Soul]

I want Portal 2 bad. Really, really, bad. I keep getting tempted to watch single player walktroughs on YouTube by some of my favourite live commenters, but I've refrained so far. It's a shame it's so expensive, though- I don't know if I can afford it after buying my laptop. I don't think it'll stay fifty pounds for very long, though.

Anyway, since I know some of you do own Portal 2, what do you think about the game? The best points, the worst points (If any?)?

 

[Linkachu]

Oh, oh, oh, please let me spend £40 on top of the original £40 for SCII to get the second third of the game that they didn't sell in SCII so I can not be able to play when I'm not online and not be able to play with anyone that doesn't speak German when I am!

Oh please, Blizzard, take my money!

So true, but it is what it is.

And continuing on that idea, lately I've been increasingly unimpressed with how downloadable content works these days in video games. It's alright when it feels like subtle extras - something you don't need to fully enjoy the game - but quite often now I've seen some pretty detailed add-ons, the kind of stuff that really should've been in the games from the start. It doesn't help that some of these extras aren't cheap. A buck or two is fine, but I've seen some run upwards of $7 for a single extra stage. Usually there are multiple pricy extras like this, too. Just doesn't seem right.

Whether it be episodic releases or add-ons, it's all money whoring. I guess whether we like it or not, that's just the way gaming is going this generation. PC expansions are obviously based around a similar concept, but I gotta say in their defense that the new content is usually pretty extensive.

Anyway, since I know some of you do own Portal 2, what do you think about the game? The best points, the worst points (If any?)?

You could probably give that its own topic actually. Bundles of people here are nutty about Portal 2.

 

[Stark]

Just ran into this video:


So so so good! Its getting even more global soon, with MLG looking to expand into Europe and the GSL October finals being held at BlizzCon

 

[Linkachu]

We can post videos directly again? Cool. =o

This is one of the games I've been heavily anticipating since E3. It slipped under my radar originally, but everything I've seen and read about it sounds great. Maybe I'll finally get my new Kirby game that outshines Super Star.

 

[Brendan Savem]

Did... Kirby inhale Metaknight, Dedede and that Waddle Dee then throw them all at Whispy Woods?

Seriously though, I am also excited about this new installment of kirby, I love kirby, but I didn't actually get to play a proper kirby game since the original Dream Land XP. So I hope I can break it when Kirby Wii comes out.

The only new hat I noticed was the lasso hat, which has Kirby in a cowboy hat with a lasso, reminds me of the pokemon ranger sprite. And it looks like Sword Kirby got an upgrade, or you can upgrade it. Because taking out a giant scimitar to smite your opponents sounds pretty awesome

It looks like the biggest thing here is the inclusion of multiplayer, with other players taking up Metaknight, King Dedede, and one of his Waddle Dee minions. And it doesn't seem that they have Kirby's inhaling powers, but metaknight has his swordplay, Dedede has his hammer and the Waddle Dee has a spear. So I guess that means each player has to play the game a bit differently, but they can cooperate with one another to provide extra power, like Kirby inhaling everyone, or riding on Metaknight's back (not sure how that helps)

Sounds like a great game, and I hope we get a release date soon.

 

[Doctor Oak]

So, if Kirby's content to run around as best pals with all his 'enemies' does that mean he's the bad guy now for killing everyone else?

Is there even an actual bad guy in Kirby any more?

 

[Linkachu]

So, if Kirby's content to run around as best pals with all his 'enemies' does that mean he's the bad guy now for killing everyone else?

Is there even an actual bad guy in Kirby any more?

He usually makes friends with everyone (except for the godly big bads that seem to spring up out of nowhere), so not really, no. :x

 

[Linkachu]

http://ds.ign.com/articles/118/1184932p1.html

In response to 3DS's upcoming price cut, IGN did up an article discussing 5 notable console price cuts that have happened in the past. It really makes me lolz when gamers act as if this has never happened before. How quickly we forget.

Moral of the story: don't buy early if you're concerned about price cuts. Buy early because you WANT to. You'd think that would be common sense, but few people seem to get that. XP

 

[Fumanshu]

Funny enough, IGN is generally known for bashing any system that doesnt perform extremely well just to create views on their page. They like the attention of angry fans.

This here is a nice read on the whole situation:

http://digthatbox.com/nintendo_3ds_secr ... ategy.html


Also interesting:

http://gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=158113

Iwata talking about how he doesnt force 3rd party developers to make games with the 3D in mind and just to use it as an option and not as the main focus if they dont wish to.

 

[Linkachu]

While you can't trust a business man, I'm not convinced that this is entirely a sneaky marketing ploy. After the huge loss in stocks, Iwata taking a personal pay cut, the Ambassador program, and Nintendo giving countless apologies throughout all of its regions (and a personal apology from the big man himself), I think they're genuinely worried about the future of 3DS when PSVita is on the horizon. But I don't really care either way. I bought it full price because I wanted it then, and now I'm getting 20 free games (some of which I don't already own) simply to satisfy the angry masses. Works for me. ♥

As for that second article, the man is on the ball:

I think there could be a Nintendo 3DS software title which does not use the 3D feature at all, and I believe Nintendo will develop such software. Instead, other features of the Nintendo 3DS should be focused on. It might be a communication feature, or other functions (such as the gyro sensor or the motion sensor). The important thing is that each respective software title has its own characteristics, and appeals to the consumers in a way that fits the software.

Couldn't agree more. I wish this concept had been utilized better with the Wii controllers because all the pointless waggling ruined far too many games. I'm just glad that stuff like Sonic Colors allows you to use the Classic controller.

 

[Doctor Oak]

Not using the 3D feature doesn't really affect the development of the game, though. Unlike the Wii with its waggle, you change the control scheme and you change how the whole game is played. With 3D, if you developed a game to not use the 3D slider at all, you could maybe get a tiny boost in graphical power or memory (since it's not rendering two images in real time), but I doubt it'd be enough to be noticable. Especially if Nintendo made it, since they're hardly well known for pushing the limits of technology.

The thing with 3D is that it's completely innocuous. You can use it, or you can choose not to. It doesn't matter, the game is still the same. If you use it, you'll get a few rough edges smoothed out and an appealing level of visual depth in games suited for it, if you don't, you don't miss out on much as it doesn't have any bearing on gameplay whatsoever. It sucked as a selling point for the system, but that doesn't mean it isn't a nice feature to have on it.

Handheld devices that use the same 3D technology are going to be quite common in a number of years time, just as the DS led the march back towards touch screen technology. Both suit a handheld due to the features and limitations of the technology and can only add to the user experience.

I'll never understand the constant rallying against 3D when it's just an extra tool in enhancing the abilities of the hardware.

 

[Linkachu]

Well said, Alex, although I was mostly focusing on the final line in that quote. If making something 3D isn't a big time drain, there's really no reason not to use it. That said, it's been stated that making pre-existing games 3D can be a time-consuming task. Maybe some developers are having difficulties with their multi-platform games/ports going 3D?

I'll never understand the constant rallying against 3D when it's just an extra tool in enhancing the abilities of the hardware.

I'd blame movies for that. People are getting sick of 3D. Many people claim they get headaches from it, too, which I can't really speak on because I don't.

 

[Doctor Oak]

Well said, Alex, although I was mostly focusing on the final line in that quote. If making something 3D isn't a big time drain, there's really no reason not to use it. That said, it's been stated that making pre-existing games 3D can be a time-consuming task. Maybe some developers are having difficulties with their multi-platform games/ports going 3D?

To do the 3D for the 3DS, all you need to do is have two cameras instead of one. It may require a fairly deep code rewrite in a port, but no more so than to put in split screen or any other multi-camera multiplayer function. It's the same thing, it's just that the hardware renders both as a single image. It's very easy to include that from the start in a game, and not THAT much harder to work into a port than any other new feature you'd put into a port for specific hardware.

The 3D feature isn't that hard to apply, and isn't that hard to turn off if you don't want to use it. Any complaints about it one way or another are pretty invalid.

As for 3D movies, cinemas would disagree.

 

[Linkachu]

The 3D feature isn't that hard to apply, and isn't that hard to turn off if you don't want to use it. Any complaints about it one way or another are pretty invalid.

I'm just going by Nintendo's interviews regarding their NES 3D Classics, which are apparently turning out to be much more costly for them than they'd anticipated. I'm not a game developer nor know the basis behind Iwata's comments regarding not using 3D in games, so I can't comment further. :x

As for 3D movies, cinemas would disagree.

Are actual game developers bashing 3D, or is it moreso just internet gamers? I took your comment to mean internet fans, which don't tend to follow mass statistics. People just enjoy complaining.

So, stats or not, if you asked on a popular website if people like/dislike 3D movies, you're probably going to find many who dislike it. That's the internet for you.

(For the record, I love 3D movies.)

 

[Doctor Oak]

The 3D feature isn't that hard to apply, and isn't that hard to turn off if you don't want to use it. Any complaints about it one way or another are pretty invalid.

I'm just going by Nintendo's interviews regarding their NES 3D Classics, which are apparently turning out to be much more costly for them than they'd anticipated. I'm not a game developer nor know the basis behind Iwata's comments regarding not using 3D in games, so I can't comment further. :x

For stuff like the 3D NES classics, it basically means remaking the game on some level, which is why it's more expensive than just emulating a ROM of it. But it's no different to porting it properly, really. Iwata's just being a cheap bastard.

 

[Fumanshu]

Not using the 3D feature doesn't really affect the development of the game

Well the 3D takes cuts the FPS in half. this is notable in fighting games especially, but I already noticed EXTREME framerate drops when I smashed 12 pots at once in OoT 3D with the 3D on.

They might be able to push out some games that are a bit harder on the hardware that disable the 3D on default.

Many people claim they get headaches from it, too, which I can't really speak on because I don't.

The problem with the 3D is, that it actually is pretty heavy on the eyes when you first start it. I had slight problems for 2 days, and now on the third day everything works fine more or less. though I gotta turn off the 3D when I get a bit sleepy. The 3D still takes a bit more effort to look at than just a regular screen, and many people most likely didnt want to adapt to this. Even if its just 2 days. Their reactions are "oh no I'm tired/head hurts, this is devilish!" even though they forget that one had to learn to look at a regular screen for hours too.

 

[Teapot]

Well the 3D takes cuts the FPS in half. this is notable in fighting games especially, but I already noticed EXTREME framerate drops when I smashed 12 pots at once in OoT 3D with the 3D on.

This. As any game developer will tell you, the most costly thing you can do, in terms of computing power in a game is to render in 3D: You have to render twice, not just once, so it takes twice the time to render any given frame. I don't think this'll stop the likes of Retro (et al) pushing the 3DS as far as it'll go even with the 3D on, but there is a possibility that a really intensive game might drop the 3D for the dramatic increase in frame rate.

 

[Linkachu]

Apparently FFXIII-2 is returning to random encounters. They claim it's to give players a feeling of tension, a surprise factor, when they're exploring the world.

Someone tell them that the world hates random encounters? =|

 

[Doctor Oak]

I think it's time the world just gave up on Final Fantasy. It's been on a clear downward spiral for years and is now massively out of touch with the sensibilities of modern game design. It's a dinosaur in a world of flying cars. It's no wonder JRPGs have struggled so hard in recent years, their developers refuse to evolve past the exact same gameplay of 20 years ago.

 

[Linkachu]

Having visual encounters is in no way new. Japanese RPGs, like Chrono Trigger and Earthbound, have had the enemies displayed in the world for ages.

To be honest, some of my favourite JRPGs are those that came out 15 years ago. After replaying them recently, I've found it's not all nostalgia based either. They're just well crafted games. I don't disagree that they're dinosaurs in many ways, but I don't really know what changes some people want to see from them either. As a fan of the genre, it's not so much that they're stuck in the past as it is them trying to please too many people.

 

[Doctor Oak]

I think the point is that JRPGs have long since gone past the point where you're meant to be assuming a role in a world's story, to the point where you're assuming the same role in the same story every time.

Western RPGs have massively eclipsed them by managing to provide new kinds of stories and new kinds of gameplay while still focusing on the core feature of assuming the role of a central character and delving deep into the world presented. On top of that, in Western RPGs, people can make that character their own - everyone's Commander Shepherd is their Commander Shepherd. There's no pre-defined character there based on the exact same tropes that have made up every other character in an RPG, as is the case with Japanese games. That gives people an even deeper role in the world and something that JRPGs seem almost deathly afraid to even consider. Just look at the massive amount of calls for trainer customisation in Pokemon, only to be given it in the most pathetic of ways in PBR and even worse in in the main series - where you only appear as the sprite of another trainer from the game online.

Maybe Japanese developers are trying to keep the JRPG moniker as something that defines the same specific set of gameplay and plot elements that it always has done - and I guess that's something that can be commended. But it should come as no surprise that those gameplay and plot elements have fallen out of favour after two decades of exposure to the same thing over and over and with the much more modern and innovative examples of role playing from the likes of Bethseda and Bioware.

Even Mario and Zelda have shifted up their formulae from time to time, it's probably about time that JRPG developers learned how to as well.

 

[Linkachu]

I'm getting really sick of the "play how you want" formula actually. It feels too DnD to me, which isn't really what drew me to the RPG genre way back when and still isn't now. The problem I see developing with Western RPGs is that they're too much of that. They're all this good-neutral-evil continuum which influences how you play in order to reach a certain conclusion. Call me old fashioned, but I prefer the more novel-like feeling of video games where you play a character within a set story, and that character is always the same character.

One example is why I enjoy characters like Sonic. He actually has a well-defined character, and when people speak of Sonic the Hedgehog everyone knows him for who he is. There's no variation there; no differing experiences between gamers. Sonic is just Sonic.

Thinking about it, not all Western RPGs use the idea of being judged as you play. You create your own character at the start and are given different options for how you play (ie. where to go), but the characters themselves don't change and the story stays relatively the same. That's a concept I can get behind, but I don't mind set characters either if the gameplay itself allows for multiple options of where to go, what to do first, etc.

 

[Doctor Oak]

One example is why I enjoy characters like Sonic. He actually has a well-defined character, and when people speak of Sonic the Hedgehog everyone knows him for who he is. There's no variation there; no differing experiences between gamers. Sonic is just Sonic.

I don't think you could have picked a worse example.

For starters, Sonic isn't an RPG character, so he's kind of irrelevant to this discussion anyway. Secondly, Sonic's character is so wildly different throughout the world and throughout different fans of different aspects of his former media dominance that there is anything but one Sonic character. Take Archie's Sonic, for example. He's wildly different to the more aggressive, sometimes snide and cocky STC Sonic, and I know that most STC readers prefer STC's Sonic for that reason. Post-Adventure Sonic is an even more completely different interpretation of the character, and even within that you have various levels of Sonic's character played out in the different kinds of games - especially between the Adventure-Shadow/06 era and the current Unleashed/Colours era.

Differing experiences, though, is a good thing. If you read a novel and have the exact same interpretation of it as everyone else, then that's a very shallow novel. You should be able to go into a situation and come out of it with your own opinions and thoughts - just as you would in the real world. Good games, especially those centred on telling you a story, should do the same.

 

[Linkachu]

I'm only referring to the current Sonic, and I'm not even considering the comics which only touch a specific fanbase. Sonic Adventure defined the Sonic we know now, and he really hasn't changed much since (I haven't seen much change at least). Sonic isn't an RPG character, but he's a character - and that's what I personally like about RPGs, too.

Your novel example is a perfect example of what I'm referring to honestly. Good novels aren't choose-your-own-adventure. They have a story that you read through, but everyone takes something different from it. A good RPG doesn't need to have characters that vary if the characters themselves are good. The same can be said for RPG plots. You don't need diverging plots if the plot itself is good and worth experiencing. What sets RPGs apart from novels however is how you play. Whether or not you play a defined character, how you play can be radically different than how someone else does. Diverging paths (not plots, but pathways) and being able to pick and choose what you want to do first help an RPG feel more open. Typically the characters you choose to use throughout an RPG can somewhat change the experience too.

I'd honestly be very sad if JRPGs went completely the way of Western RPGs that use the alignment system. Characters would become less defined. Some Western RPGs have done it right, but others have left me feeling like I'm playing a lifeless shell. I can't connect to the character because there's nothing to connect to. As far as JRPGs are concerned, I definitely think they could make improvements and hopefully someday they'll refind their footing. I just don't feel that the way of most Western RPGs is necessarily the end all be all.

 

[Doctor Oak]

I think you've confused Mass Effect with being every Western RPG ever. There are plenty that aren't centred around whether you're good or evil, that's just what Bioware likes to do. Oblivion, for example, is very much about finding your way through a world that's presented to you and experiencing that world's story - using a character you create and get into.

I don't think it's possible to be that immersed in a Japanese cliche of a silent spiky haired teenager whose parents were killed/kidnapped/otherwise engaged by some mystical force/bishie bad guy and heading out onto a wacky quest to xp grind against a billion identical enemies until you find that mystical force/bishie bad guy and spend 10 hours fighting it in 3 different modes. There's no character connection there, you have no real power over what this character does to affect this world, or how they interact with others. With Western RPGs, the point is that you do. What you pick to say and what you choose to do is what affects the outcome of the game. In some examples, that involves determining whether to be a paragon of kindness or a complete evil jerk, but in all, it determines how you learn about this world and its characters and what mark you leave on it as you play through.

(And as for Sonic, before Adventure, it was those cartoons and comics that gave the character... well, a character at all. Those founded what we saw the character as and Adventure was a departure from that in all regards to something completely different. And, like I said, if you compare the character of Sonic from Adventure-Shadow/06 to the current Sonic of Unleashed and Colours, they are completely different tonally anyway. If anything, the current version is like some weird hybrid of Adventure-era Sonic and DiC's cartoon Sonic.)

 

[Linkachu]

It IS Bioware's love, yes, but they're not the only ones who are doing it nowadays. And I've never enjoyed that concept of theirs. :x

I can't really say anything more here because I've already said everything I can. The things you're focusing on now aren't what I enjoy in my RPGs, plain and simple. XD

And all JRPGs aren't like that, not their characters, plots, or gameplay. I typically never level grind in anything if I don't have to, and I find it a sign of a bad RPG when you need to. Pokemon, for example, tends to force people to level grind, and I really dislike that about it. I want to feel challenged, but not with the need to level up.

One JRPG I really loved (Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete) had a system that multiplied the stats of the bosses by the level of your characters. Leveling up would give you new abilities, but the HP/power/ etc. of the boss would still be a challenge because they increased as you did. That was an awesome idea that I'd love to see used more, but it's sadly been ignored.