If The Starter Pokemon From The Core Series' Games Were In A Battle Royale, Who Would Win?

[ThAtGuY101]

Being big doesn't make blastoise any slower than its smaller forms. Also all the other pokémon are big too so the same bullseye logic applies to them too.

Edit: intellion, charizars, sceptile ,and decidueye are strong ,but they don't really possess any special abilities to truly give them a guarantee win.

 

[.Frostbitten.]

In that case we could take a more methodological approach: (my effort to be more playful XD)

First Discussion Point: The Field Dimensions

If we use the map from the introduction post and the measurements described than that is about 120 Feet by 220 Feet (13,200 Square Feet). I had some entertainment and added up dimensions of every contender that this works out to about 1200 Square Feet. So that will mean there is about 10% of Space Taken up by BODIES not counting the Trees and other landscape features. It would be near impossible to move around to dodge, unless you are smaller than the objects you are hiding behind (e.g. Agility) and Stamina would only carry you so far against the multiple area-of-effect abilities that would be launched at the start.

In this case I believe the final list of contenders below is even more assured, as the map in question ensures that only those that can "escape" the initial Hunger Games level carnage from beginning would have a chance. All Pokemon who can move slower than 10 FT per second would be struck by no less than two abilities before finding shelter, and this would eliminate more than half of the competitors right from the onset of the Battle Royale. And odds do not improve too much if you use another field such as in the example below too:

If you used a standard Stadium (76,800 Square Feet) than this is more than five times the space limitations and allows for some degree of mobility. It allows for the largest ones to not be automatically hit, but the normal rule of "Battle Royale" where everyone targets down the largest contenders first to avoid fighting them later, and also that everyone tries to take out most number of players early into fight would prevail in this scenario. This means that first "variable" to test with validity would be "Speed" since Speed allows you avoid the volleys.

If "Speed" is the first tested variable than that means all Pokemon unable to move slower than 10 Feet per Second would be eliminated (See Below). It also means that all Pokemon able to move slower than 15 Feet per Second would likely be struck at least once as they spread around the environment. From this hypothesis than the next "Tested Variable" will become one of "Endurance" for the remaining 10 out of 24 Contestants. And as Stamina is not proportional to Attack Power in Pokemon (rests at about 75% of comparison DPS/DOT).

If it is beneficial at this point I could do the Damage to Stamina Ratio Charts, but a sample review of the Inherent Variable Potential (IVP) of each species shows the below 14 would be eliminated almost without question in either of the mapped scenarios... and from this there would be a disproportionate number of Fire Pokemon remaining and would cause the next "Tested Variable" to become one of Type Advantages. it would be natural for the Grass Types to hide, and be less willing to attack the Water Types needed to beat the Fire Types. Let's use more practical example from the Real World to examine how people respond to uneven teams.

In Pokemon Go: Team Mystic (Water) represents 42% of Players, Team Valor (Fire) Represents 39% of the Players, and Team Instinct (Grass) Represents 19% of Players. In Gym Battles on a global scale the fight has always been between the teams with most players, while the team with least number sits on the side. This would likely carry forward into the Battle Royale, and lead to the slowest Fire (Incineroar and Emboar) and Water (Primilla and Blastoise) to be targeted down from everyone to thin the numbers, while a proportionate number of the land based grass Pokemon (Serperior) would also fall during the "Type Based Testing".

From these remaining seven Pokemon it is natural to assume the two flying Pokemon (Charizard and Decidueye) would battle it out in the skies and Charizard would be the winner due to type advantages alone. Likewise, Sceptile and Greninja/Intellion and Incineroar would be continuing to use agility and at least one would likely be targeted and hit so we'll eliminate the slowest of them which is Incineroar and Serperior who both have abilities that benefit from taking damage and therefore would not do as well in a prolonged battle of attrition.

This leaves us with a (Situational)
Sceptile and Rillabloom and Charizard
Greninja and Intellion

Neither of the Grass Pokemon possess abilities that could reach Charizard in the skies, and being equal odds the ones with the least Stamina are to be eliminated so bye bye to Sceptile and Intellion. At this point Greninja has the CLEAR advantage due to the speed, and power, and diversity of movesets, and Rillebloom being the slowest on the list would have taken no less than three hits by this point while Charizard and Greninja could have taken at most one; this means the most tired would drop first or be teamed up against, and lead to the final show down of which the anime was clear Charizard would need to Mega Evolve to win; and since that requires a human (against rules) the winner would be Greninja.

This analysis used the 10FT per Second Rule to determine what would happen over a 6-Second movement intervul scale per move. If you account for the HP and DEF Attributes from each Pokemon that determines how many "Hits" could be taken; while those whom have speed above the "Speed Test" would evade the first couple of volleys; while those in and around "Speed Test" had a "Stamina Test" performed to see who would fall down next.

I hope this was as entertaining to read as it was to write!


Grass Types:
Venusaur - Eliminated Round 1
Maganium- Eliminated Round 1
Sceptile
Torterra- Eliminated Round 1
Serperior - Eliminated Round 3
Chesnaught- Eliminated Round 1
Decidueye - Eliminated Round 3
Rillabloom- Eliminated Round 3

Fire Types:
Charizard
Typhlosion - Eliminated Round 1
Blaziken - Eliminated Round 2
Infernape - Eliminated Round 2
Emboar- Eliminated Round 3
Delphox - Eliminated Round 1
Incineroar - Eliminated Round 3
Cinderace - Eliminated Round 2

Water Types:
Blastoise- Eliminated Round 3
Feraligatr - Eliminated Round 1
Swampert - Eliminated Round 2
Empoleon - Eliminated Round 1
Samurott - Eliminated Round 1
Greninja
Primarina - Eliminated Round 1
Inteleon

Miscellanious:
- Pikachu - Eliminated Round 2
- Eevee - Eliminated Round 2

 

[Merciless Medic]

In that case we could take a more methodological approach: (my effort to be more playful XD)

I believe the first question would be to determine the size of the battlefield in question as this would play a factor. If we use the entire map in question from introduction post than encompased size would be about 120 Feet by 220 Feet (13,200 Square Feet). This would be literal carnage as the total Diameter of the aforementioned Pokemon is upwards of 1200; there simply would be no room to move. For perspective this is the size of moving around your average hallway proportional to a human size relative to the space remaining. So everyone who could not race to the forests, and hide under water would be destroyed within seconds from list of AOE posted earlier.

If in the above map scenario therefore speed becomes the only factor, who can escape the initial "Hunger Games" opening bloodlust. If we use a larger field such as a stadium than it means 76,800 Square Feet. If you divide this number by 24 than that leaves 3200 SQ Feet per contestant, or about a horizontal and vertical movement of about 56 Feet (the size of 9 humans laying down in a circle) to give precise measurements. This gives more room to be moved around and evade, but ultimately would fall prey to same logic of Agility > Stamina.

This would mean that Pokemon of larger size such as Venusaur who are slow to move, and would be immediately within range of at least four other contestants would have a significant disadvantage. The bulk would play a factor, but bulk in the games is never 1:1 and so the ability to be hit by at least twice the moves, would not mean you could absorb at least twice as much damage. Attrition plays in and...

It is also standard practice in any Battle Royale to eliminate as many people as early as possible to reduce the cross-fire, and the normal accepted approach for this in say Wrestling and MMA is target down the largest contenders first, the people no one would want to 1v1 towards the end of the match. Add in the bulkiest Pokemon would be shields for the more agile that eliminates 10 of 24 in First Round.

From this the Fire Types have a distinct advantage in terms of numbers, and this would most likely cause the Grass Pokemon to be more evasive of the threats, and be more hesitant to target down the water types as this would hinder their chances of beating the Fires. So it would become very much a Pokemon Go Valor vs. Mystic type of scenario where the bulkiest of remaining would clash, and also take all the nimblest ones out due to stamina constraints. Stamina is therefore the second factor under analsysis following the Speed deficiets.

This leaves us with a (Situational)
Sceptile and Serperior and Decidueye and Rillabloom
Charizard and Emboar and Incineroar
Blastoise and Greninja and Intellion

From these remaining ten Pokemon it is natural to assume the two flying Pokemon (Charizard and Decidueye) would battle it out in the skies and Charizard would be the winner due to type advantages alone. Likewise, Sceptile and Greninja/Intellion and Incineroar would be continuing to use agility and at least one would likely be targeted and hit so we'll eliminate the slowest of them which is Incineroar and Serperior who both have abilities that benefit from taking damage and therefore would not do as well in a prolonged battle of attrition.

This leaves us with a (Situational)
Sceptile and Rillabloom
Emboar and Charizard
Blastoise and Greninja and Intellion

For the remaining contenders it would be impossible to know who would win although we can make assumptions:

Sceptile - Impossible to beat Charizard due to movesets and range limitations. If Charizard stayed out of range, Charizard would win.
Rillabloom - This Pokemon could make down to the final four, but likely would have taken some hits in process, and could be exhausted.
Emboar - This Pokemon could make down to the final four, but likely would have taken some hits in process, and could be exhausted.
Charizard - Outside of battle with Decidueye and Flight Time of about 5-10 Minutes in prime shape, Charizard can fly for up to 2-Days.
Blastoise - This Pokemon could make down to the final four, but likely would have taken some hits in process, and could be exhausted.
Greninja - This Pokemon could have evaded all moves by now and have exhausted minimal stamina in evasion if the situations are ideal.
Intellion - This Pokemon could have evaded all moves by now and have exhausted minimal stamina in evasion if the situations are ideal.

This leaves us with a (Situational)

Sceptile
Greninja
Intellion
Charizard

At this point Greninja has the CLEAR advantage due to the speed, and power, and diversity of Movesets) so my money would be on him, or on Charizard who could evade the remaining four until it was down to him and Greninja... At which point Greninja would still probably win.

This analysis has assumed that the "bulkiest" would be non-stop attacking to minimize threats, and the "agile ones" would be non-stop on evasion or picking off their desired enemies. As it is easier to hit a stationary target than a moving one, the Round 1 & 2 Conclusions are for most part assured, and then simply comes down to "who hates who move" but I do believe the above four would be the final battlers.


Grass Types:
Venusaur - Eliminated Round 1
Maganium- Eliminated Round 1
Sceptile
Torterra- Eliminated Round 1
Serperior - Eliminated Round 3
Chesnaught- Eliminated Round 1
Decidueye - Eliminated Round 3
Rillabloom- Eliminated Round 3

Fire Types:
Charizard
Typhlosion - Eliminated Round 1
Blaziken - Eliminated Round 2
Infernape - Eliminated Round 2
Emboar- Eliminated Round 3
Delphox - Eliminated Round 1
Incineroar - Eliminated Round 3
Cinderace - Eliminated Round 2

Water Types:
Blastoise- Eliminated Round 3
Feraligatr - Eliminated Round 1
Swampert - Eliminated Round 2
Empoleon - Eliminated Round 1
Samurott - Eliminated Round 1
Greninja
Primarina - Eliminated Round 1
Inteleon

Miscellanious:
- Pikachu - Eliminated Round 2
- Eevee - Eliminated Round 2

This is incredibly well thought out. Thank you. Also, I'll be using the measurements you have given as it helps in determining this. Thank you so much for all of your efforts.

 

[.Frostbitten.]

@Merciless Medic - It is no problem at all!

If beneficial here is the summary of the analytics and I could add an Inherent Value Potential (IVP) chart to show the potential number of "Hits" each Pokemon could take, and a "Damage Per Second" and "Damage Over Time" chart to show the number of attacks each of the above would be able to land before being KO. I believe the results would indicate the above results based on the quick glance of ratios.

Tests Performed:

Test #1 - Impact Radius, the dimensions of the field that would affect who is where and by when.
Test #2 - Speed Test, to examine who could evade first round of volleys using 10 Feet per Second Interval : 3-Second Cast Ratio,
Test #3 - Endurance Test, to examine who of those hit during "Speed Test" would fall and who would carry damage into next round.
Test #4 - Sociological Test, to examine how the remaining ten would form groups of own type and attack the logical remaining sets.

There is no easy way to determine who would win following these four tests (Charizard, Rillabloom, Sceptile, Greninja and Intellion) although with all other variables being equal on the (DOT) scale than move sets become the sole variant of which Greninja simply destroys all of those remaining on the battlefield. It learns Water Pulse and Water Shuriken for Charizard; Ice Beam and Blizzard dfor Sceptile and Rillabloom; and the various Smoke and Fog Moves would eliminate the accuracy of Intellion followed by Grass Knots to slow them down and clinch victory.

This was an entertaining discussion, if anyone is ever interested in doing a story or another scenario let me know!
(If provided the above four tests and IVP, DOT, and DPS Scales are accepted as true in this scenario) ^_^

 

[ThAtGuY101]

charizard can't learn ice beam or blizzard via leveling up. This caught me off guard when I originally posted here ,but one of the rules is, the only moves they can use are natural level ups.

 

[.Frostbitten.]

@That1guyYT

If only natural learned moves are allowed than Greninja would still have the highest diversity of any other Pokemon on the List. It does make victory less "absolute" depending on who was remaining from above list (Charizard, Rillabloom, Sceptile, Greninja and Intellion).

For the most part access to the best Water Type Moves in Game other than Snipe Shot; but Water Shuriken Pulse functions similar. So that leaves the Dark Moves to destroy Sceptile with the lower Special Defense IVP; Shadow Sneak to undermine Rillabloom with speed; Spikes and Smokescreen for Intellion with Extrasensory combinations, and Double Team and Substitution also eliminates potential of "RNG".

In most competitive circles such as International Pokemon Tournaments the "TP" Type Potential of a Pokemon determines its viability and while most Starter Evolutions have 2-Types that can be learned, and the best have 4-Types that can be learned, Greninja learns staggering 7-Types of Moves. It also has the most even STAT Distribution and STAB Benefits; and has the third highest "Combat Power" raw potential.

Now, who would win in a Battle of all 872 Non-Legendary Pokemon? It is Zoroark or Ditto Hands Down - No Contest ^_^

Haze -ICE

— —
Night Slash DARK

70 100
Feint Attack DARK

60 ∞

Extrasensory PSYCHIC

80 100
Water Shuriken WATER

15 100
Water Pulse WATER

60 100
Hydro Pump WATER

110 80

Lick GHOST

30 100
Shadow Sneak GHOST

40 100
Quick Attack NORMAL

40 100

Smokescreen NORMAL

— 100
Spikes GROUND

— —
Substitute NORMAL

— —
Double Team NORMAL

— —
Night Slash DARK

70 100

 

[kyuukestu]

In that case we could take a more methodological approach: (my effort to be more playful XD)

First Discussion Point: The Field Dimensions

If we use the map from the introduction post and the measurements described than that is about 120 Feet by 220 Feet (13,200 Square Feet). I had some entertainment and added up dimensions of every contender that this works out to about 1200 Square Feet. So that will mean there is about 10% of Space Taken up by BODIES not counting the Trees and other landscape features. It would be near impossible to move around to dodge, unless you are smaller than the objects you are hiding behind (e.g. Agility) and Stamina would only carry you so far against the multiple area-of-effect abilities that would be launched at the start.

In this case I believe the final list of contenders below is even more assured, as the map in question ensures that only those that can "escape" the initial Hunger Games level carnage from beginning would have a chance. All Pokemon who can move slower than 10 FT per second would be struck by no less than two abilities before finding shelter, and this would eliminate more than half of the competitors right from the onset of the Battle Royale. And odds do not improve too much if you use another field such as in the example below too:

If you used a standard Stadium (76,800 Square Feet) than this is more than five times the space limitations and allows for some degree of mobility. It allows for the largest ones to not be automatically hit, but the normal rule of "Battle Royale" where everyone targets down the largest contenders first to avoid fighting them later, and also that everyone tries to take out most number of players early into fight would prevail in this scenario. This means that first "variable" to test with validity would be "Speed" since Speed allows you avoid the volleys.

If "Speed" is the first tested variable than that means all Pokemon unable to move slower than 10 Feet per Second would be eliminated (See Below). It also means that all Pokemon able to move slower than 15 Feet per Second would likely be struck at least once as they spread around the environment. From this hypothesis than the next "Tested Variable" will become one of "Endurance" for the remaining 10 out of 24 Contestants. And as Stamina is not proportional to Attack Power in Pokemon (rests at about 75% of comparison DPS/DOT).

If it is beneficial at this point I could do the Damage to Stamina Ratio Charts, but a sample review of the Inherent Variable Potential (IVP) of each species shows the below 14 would be eliminated almost without question in either of the mapped scenarios... and from this there would be a disproportionate number of Fire Pokemon remaining and would cause the next "Tested Variable" to become one of Type Advantages. it would be natural for the Grass Types to hide, and be less willing to attack the Water Types needed to beat the Fire Types. Let's use more practical example from the Real World to examine how people respond to uneven teams.

In Pokemon Go: Team Mystic (Water) represents 42% of Players, Team Valor (Fire) Represents 39% of the Players, and Team Instinct (Grass) Represents 19% of Players. In Gym Battles on a global scale the fight has always been between the teams with most players, while the team with least number sits on the side. This would likely carry forward into the Battle Royale, and lead to the slowest Fire (Incineroar and Emboar) and Water (Primilla and Blastoise) to be targeted down from everyone to thin the numbers, while a proportionate number of the land based grass Pokemon (Serperior) would also fall during the "Type Based Testing".

From these remaining seven Pokemon it is natural to assume the two flying Pokemon (Charizard and Decidueye) would battle it out in the skies and Charizard would be the winner due to type advantages alone. Likewise, Sceptile and Greninja/Intellion and Incineroar would be continuing to use agility and at least one would likely be targeted and hit so we'll eliminate the slowest of them which is Incineroar and Serperior who both have abilities that benefit from taking damage and therefore would not do as well in a prolonged battle of attrition.

This leaves us with a (Situational)
Sceptile and Rillabloom and Charizard
Greninja and Intellion

Neither of the Grass Pokemon possess abilities that could reach Charizard in the skies, and being equal odds the ones with the least Stamina are to be eliminated so bye bye to Sceptile and Intellion. At this point Greninja has the CLEAR advantage due to the speed, and power, and diversity of movesets, and Rillebloom being the slowest on the list would have taken no less than three hits by this point while Charizard and Greninja could have taken at most one; this means the most tired would drop first or be teamed up against, and lead to the final show down of which the anime was clear Charizard would need to Mega Evolve to win; and since that requires a human (against rules) the winner would be Greninja.

This analysis used the 10FT per Second Rule to determine what would happen over a 6-Second movement intervul scale per move. If you account for the HP and DEF Attributes from each Pokemon that determines how many "Hits" could be taken; while those whom have speed above the "Speed Test" would evade the first couple of volleys; while those in and around "Speed Test" had a "Stamina Test" performed to see who would fall down next.

I hope this was as entertaining to read as it was to write!


Grass Types:
Venusaur - Eliminated Round 1
Maganium- Eliminated Round 1
Sceptile
Torterra- Eliminated Round 1
Serperior - Eliminated Round 3
Chesnaught- Eliminated Round 1
Decidueye - Eliminated Round 3
Rillabloom- Eliminated Round 3

Fire Types:
Charizard
Typhlosion - Eliminated Round 1
Blaziken - Eliminated Round 2
Infernape - Eliminated Round 2
Emboar- Eliminated Round 3
Delphox - Eliminated Round 1
Incineroar - Eliminated Round 3
Cinderace - Eliminated Round 2

Water Types:
Blastoise- Eliminated Round 3
Feraligatr - Eliminated Round 1
Swampert - Eliminated Round 2
Empoleon - Eliminated Round 1
Samurott - Eliminated Round 1
Greninja
Primarina - Eliminated Round 1
Inteleon

Miscellanious:
- Pikachu - Eliminated Round 2
- Eevee - Eliminated Round 2

An excellent analysis of the situation all things considered; but, I'm here to argue for petty reasons, solely because you stated Typhlosion would be eliminated in round 1 and I, as a Typhlosion fan, absolutely shall not stand such disrespect xD

I've scanned your analysis a number of times (because I accede to most of your points because they are incredibly logical and I could find little to be discontent with, so kudos ) and I've been drawn to two points of contention.

The first is this statement here:

It would be near impossible to move around to dodge, unless you are smaller than the objects you are hiding behind (e.g. Agility) and Stamina would only carry you so far against the multiple area-of-effect abilities that would be launched at the start.

I'd present the argument that shelter or hiding would actually be of very little help given the environment provided. The river and lava stream are, in my opinion, the only feasible means of taking shelter as all three forests are little more than kinder. In fact, if I were to get liberal, then I believe all the forests would be turned into 'Seas of Fire' within the first few turns, similar to the effect produced when Fire Pledge & Grass Pledge are used together. This means that the forests themselves might end up as fiery death traps to all grass-types that seek shelter therein.

With a lack of Water AoE moves, a sea of fire could engulf the entire battlefield, from plains to forests, within a matter of moments, and while the fire types will be mostly unaffected by this and the water types could seek refuge in the river or perhaps keep the flames at bay, this may be a death sentence for any grass-type that can't escape what would essentially be a raging wildfire.

Following the line of logic, this statement:

This means that first "variable" to test with validity would be "Speed" since Speed allows you avoid the volleys.

If "Speed" is the first tested variable than that means all Pokemon unable to move slower than 10 Feet per Second would be eliminated (See Below).

becomes a bit premature as 'escape' might not be such an ideal option.





The effectiveness of a raging wildfire is more debatable than I'd like to admit however, I know a number of grass types have the ability to control plant life and maybe they could blast through the flames with their own moves, such as Solarbeam; but, at the very least, the fall out from a Fire-type volley in such a flammable environment necessitates the need to look at how each pokemon would fight while dealing with the inevitable forest fire.

 

[Merciless Medic]

And this is why I have made a rocky outcrop to the west of the circle of death. The rocky outcrop has no grass. Maybe a dry bushel here or there but the Grass-Types who flee there will undoubtedly be safe from the fire.

EDIT: Granted that the Fire-Types don't chase them down, which they undoubtedly will do.

 

[kyuukestu]

And this is why I have made a rocky outcrop to the west of the circle of death. The rocky outcrop has no grass. Maybe a dry bushel here or there but the Grass-Types who flee there will undoubtedly be safe from the fire.

EDIT: Granted that the Fire-Types don't chase them down, which they undoubtedly will do.

That's certainly true, areas without any vegetation won't burn, but I'm on the fence as to which would be preferable. The forest which will, almost certainly, burn but will provide brief protection at the expense of being trapped in flames within moments, or the rocky outcrop which, while free from fire hazards, leaves you practically exposed.


I think the likes of Greninja, Inteleon, and Sceptile are both close enough and agile enough to survive an onslaught in the rocky outcrop where the option of dodging is still open, as opposed to their mobility being restricted once a forest fire starts raging. How the battlefield will develop afterward would require some more thought though.

 

[Merciless Medic]

The rocky outcrop has a little hole that looks more like a dip than anything else (like a pitfall trap, but one that wasn't dug down far enough) and many rocky fixtures of varying thickness and height.

 

[.Frostbitten.]

I'd present the argument that shelter or hiding would actually be of very little help given the environment provided. The river and lava stream are, in my opinion, the only feasible means of taking shelter as all three forests are little more than kinder. In fact, if I were to get liberal, then I believe all the forests would be turned into 'Seas of Fire' within the first few turns, similar to the effect produced when Fire Pledge & Grass Pledge are used together. This means that the forests themselves might end up as fiery death traps to all grass-types that seek shelter therein.

With a lack of Water AoE moves, a sea of fire could engulf the entire battlefield, from plains to forests, within a matter of moments, and while the fire types will be mostly unaffected by this and the water types could seek refuge in the river or perhaps keep the flames at bay, this may be a death sentence for any grass-type that can't escape what would essentially be a raging wildfire.

I had not expected this amount of respect for my casual entertainment this morning! In response to the comment about the lakes and lava seams than I would agree to this entirely. Neither of them would provide any kind of cover and that would make the two forests and jungle environments the only real cover, and the only cover may I add for those of a smaller physical dimension. If the Pokemon is larger than they would stick out of one side and be exposed to attacks reducing the impact so only the most agile (e.g. the five remaining) would fit this best.

In response to the comment about the fire catching to the forest and the jungles, you have to remember that there would be an equal level of water going out alongside of that fire. It would dampen the area and make contagious fire non-existant. This is called a "Water Line" and is so often used in combating massive forest fires; the GRASS Pokemon would be the only ones at a disadvantage as they are weak to the fire, and would have no way to put it out, meanwhile attacking their easiest prey (WATER Pokemon) means exposing themselves to increased risk. being eliminated earlier, we could move him to the second or third elimination pool if you would like. But his speed measured in meters per second would lead to him suffering between one to four hits by that point, and his stamina is too low to sustain those safely ^_^

Therefore, I submit that the above scenarios only better assert that the Fire and Water Pokemon on the Final List would be the victors. As for

I think the likes of Greninja, Inteleon, and Sceptile are both close enough and agile enough to survive an onslaught in the rocky outcrop where the option of dodging is still open, as opposed to their mobility being restricted once a forest fire starts raging. How the battlefield will develop afterward would require some more thought though.

Agreed! Greninja has an additional advantage in the rocky area as well as it is the ONLY Pokemon on the list that can create fog and other forms of haze that would affect visibility in what is otherwise an open field. It has also been stated to be able to move freely in these types of environments, so would be able to target down those that chased it whenever it moved out of the Jungles that is where it also has that natural camouflaged and is also conveniently next to a river that it could jump into to evade Fire Type as well as Grass Type moves as well!

This raised into question a potential "Fifth Test" namely the environmental suitability of each Pokemon on the list. It would make Grass Pokemon have a significant disadvantage without a complete mountain environment, meanwhile would allow Fire Types to more rapidly thin the competition, and Water Types to protect themselves from spreading flames. As Fire does ultimately still hurt all of the fires upon list however (except for Charizard who has been proven to be able to survive inside of Lava) the only species with a clear advantage once more would be WATER Types of high maneavuerability such as Intellion and Greninja. Supporting the above Tested Hypothesis as well!

(This is Fun ^_^)

 

[kyuukestu]

I had not expected this amount of respect for my casual entertainment this morning! In response to the comment about the lakes and lava seams than I would agree to this entirely. Neither of them would provide any kind of cover and that would make the two forests and jungle environments the only real cover, and the only cover may I add for those of a smaller physical dimension. If the Pokemon is larger than they would stick out of one side and be exposed to attacks reducing the impact so only the most agile (e.g. the five remaining) would fit this best.

I actually disagree on this point; my stance is the complete opposite, the water and lava, both being liquids, could possibly be submerged in by water and fire types respectively, which would provide far more effective cover than the forest. Your later statement about Charizard being able to survive in Lava is precisely what makes Lava a better cover than the forest.

Liquids are also generally better for absorbing the raw impact of moves, and I'd further point out that because these are fully-evolved Pokemon, there's a high likelihood their raw might render the trees no different than paper-thin defences.

Many of the high base power moves would likely be able to snap trees like twigs if you take into account some of their more...dubious Pokedex entries and somewhat inconsistent anime showings. For example; Blastoise using its water jets to punch through steel plates.

In response to the comment about the fire catching to the forest and the jungles, you have to remember that there would be an equal level of water going out alongside of that fire. It would dampen the area and make contagious fire non-existant. This is called a "Water Line" and is so often used in combating massive forest fires; the GRASS Pokemon would be the only ones at a disadvantage as they are weak to the fire, and would have no way to put it out, meanwhile attacking their easiest prey (WATER Pokemon) means exposing themselves to increased risk. being eliminated earlier, we could move him to the second or third elimination pool if you would like. But his speed measured in meters per second would lead to him suffering between one to four hits by that point, and his stamina is too low to sustain those safely ^_^

I also disagree here.

The lack of water type AoE moves on the field leads me to assume there would be a higher quantity and wider spread of fire on the field.

Heat Wave & Eruption would cover wider areas and set fire to more vegetation than could be effectively doused by Hydro Pump or Water Sport. I think the best chance for setting up an effective water line would be Rain Dance, and even then the fires could persist for some time.

I don't think the water pokemon have the sheer range needed to douse the area fast enough to prevent a massive forest fire, there's simply too much kinder. I do accede that they could likely protect themselves from being engulfed by the flames, but unless the water types take to the forest and utter douse it (via Rain Dance, Hydro Pump, etc.), most of it will go up in flames.

To put it in another way, even without active effort, the grass, trees, leaves, etc. would still kindle after being exposed to fire, so the Fire Types don't even need to focus on starting a fire. Their mere presence is a fire hazard. The opposite argument cannot be made with the water types, because they'd need to actively douse the area to prevent, or stymie a fire. I'd call into question a Water Type's ability to fight the Fire & Grass Types and the surrounding blaze simultaneously.

I would say that a contagious fire is virtually assured and what we're really assessing is how much damage it will do and how far it would spread.

I don't disagree that Typhlosion gets eliminated, most certainly not, I do believe the water types have the highest chance of emerging victorious in this situation, I just don't believe Typhlosion would be eliminated in the first round xD

 

[.Frostbitten.]

I actually disagree on this point; my stance is the complete opposite, the water and lava, both being liquids, could possibly be submerged in by water and fire types respectively, which would provide far more effective cover than the forest. Your later statement about Charizard being able to survive in Lava is precisely what makes Lava a better cover than the forest.

If the physical dimensions of the lava pool and the river allowed for fully evolved Pokemon to submerge than I would agree entirely. As each of the "Veins" are about 5 Feet to 10 Feet Across, than the majority of Pokemon would be shore to shore submerged and could easily render themselves vulnerable. We are also assuming there is sufficient depth for their height ratios, and that is a lot of assumptions. ... If it were say lakes and volcanos than also would agree entirely, but have to used the size proportional map that we had been given in earliest posting.

The lack of water type AoE moves on the field leads me to assume there would be a higher quantity and wider spread of fire on the field.

Heat Wave & Eruption would cover wider areas and set fire to more vegetation than could be effectively doused by Hydro Pump or Water Sport. I think the best chance for setting up an effective water line would be Rain Dance, and even then the fires could persist for some time.

This point in conceded and to be considered in closer examination. My point had more been that if say a water pokemon were in the back left corner of a forest that was engulfed within flames, than they could easily lay down a personal "Water-Line" to stop flames from spreading into their area while having a literal shield of fire across a 1600 Square Foot Radius. As Grass Pokemon could not enter a "Sea of Fire" that would leave only Fire Pokemon who could enter, and would be advantageous to the Water Pokemon hiding there within until the fires had subsided.

Situational Fact: If the water pokemon was hiding up-wind of the flames, than the smoke could disorient them, but no more than say being in a "Smoke Screen" which is an actual move able to be used by many of the Fire Types, as well as several of the Water Types on the list! But the increased access to "AOE" abilities most assuredly do cause the Fire Types to be more dominating than a first-case glance may have revealed.

Point Well Made! Typlosion moved to 3rd Round Elimination due to the shear overwhelming amount of Area of Effect Abilities it possesses!

 

[kyuukestu]

My point had more been that if say a water pokemon were in the back left corner of a forest that was engulfed within flames, than they could easily lay down a personal "Water-Line" to stop flames from spreading into their area while having a literal shield of fire across a 1600 Square Foot Radius. As Grass Pokemon could not enter a "Sea of Fire" that would leave only Fire Pokemon who could enter, and would be advantageous to the Water Pokemon hiding there within until the fires had subsided.

I completely agree, the Water Types would most certainly be able to protect themselves from the flames.

Situational Fact: If the water pokemon was hiding up-wind of the flames, than the smoke could disorient them, but no more than say being in a "Smoke Screen" which is an actual move able to be used by many of the Fire Types, as well as several of the Water Types on the list! But the increased access to "AOE" abilities most assuredly do cause the Fire Types to be more dominating than a first-case glance may have revealed.

Since you've brought it up, also an extremely situational scenario is that smoke can be re-kindled and in some cases it will even explode in a 'Smoke Explosion'.

How the moves might play off environmental effects is certainly something that might need to be scrutinized later.

Point Well Made! Typlosion moved to 3rd Round Elimination due to the shear overwhelming amount of Area of Effect Abilities it possesses!

I'm wholly satisfied with your judgment. Arguments well-put-together love~

 

[.Frostbitten.]

How the moves might play off environmental effects is certainly something that might need to be scrutinized later.

Concurred! Here is an additional logic driven "Test" on the "Area of Effect" (AoE) on the "Area of Range" (AoR) scale to examine effect radius and the amount of speed that would be required to move away. Before that, a quick review of the data which, contrary to initial assumptions is overwhelmingly in favor of Water Pokemon who learn nearly half of the moves on this list, and the ability to use Water moves to combat Fire, and he ability to use Ice moves to combat Grass, is unique scheme whereas all other starters counter only one.

In terms of the "AoI" of the moves the average radius of each is about 17 Feet in Range, and requires a minimum frame animation, or "Cast Time" of at least 2-Seconds. This means the earlier test of 10 Meters per 1-Second Speed correlation would allow certain Pokemon to later evade the majority of these AoE abilities as the collective Pokemon either run away (agile ones) or cast spells (the bulkiest of the Starters); from those that surpass the 17-Feet Radius Diameter Rule than we have 9-Moves out of the initial 26-Moves that could affect All Starters.

These moves are as follows: Lava Plume (Fire), Eruption (Fire), Surf (Water), Muddy Water (Water), Blizzard (Ice), Disarming Voice (Normal), Earthquake (Ground), Magnitude (Ground), and Rock Slide (Rock). From these 5-Super Effective on Fire, 0-Super Effective on Water, and 4-Super Effective on Grass. This means contrary to earlier arguments the water types once again have a significant advantage on the others; almost to a 2:1 Ratio which could lead to them being ganged up on, but then cross-fire would again damage those on the other teams.

Now then, in terms of the AoR of each of these nine abilities, the ones with the largest AoR are Eruption, Surf, Blizzard, and Earthquake so those will be considered the most lethal. A well-timed use of any one of these at the start (or more than one) would affect EVERY SINGLE Pokemon in the starting area as they fleed, with the exception of Charizard, Sceptile, Greninja, and Intellion who have the highest speed so at minimum would suffer only shockwaves and mild chills on the outside of of the area of impact. All others would suffer at least 30% dmg.

The Impact Radius of Earthquake would reach all four zones of shelter, but the trees would provide rooted defense to minimize.
The Impact Radius of Surf and Muddy Water likewise would barely reach the four zones of shelter, and be easily repelled by barriers.
The Impact Radius of Blizzard and Eruption are the largest of those remaining, and would also damage the stability of those structures.

Blizzard and Eruption would more or less deal lethal damage to every Grass Pokemon afflicted by both of these, even if escaping, with the exception of Sceptile who has a Speed Coefficient of ~27FT Per Second, and therefore could narrowly evade the radius of Eruption which is estimated at about 50-Square Feet, and be chilled by the Impact Radius of Blizzard which is around 75-Square Feet. This means that of the eight original Grass Pokemon, Sceptile is the only one remaining and could dash to Rocky or Jungle areas to protect against second case.

Eruption being 50-Square Feet WOULD reach the tree-line which was stated to be 20-40 Feet Away (depending who used) and that would also be intense enough to begin a blaze of the forest area, and partial blaze of the damp Jungle Terrain. The water types could easily put out the Jungle Types, and form a barrier to protect themselves, while the Fire Types who did flee the forest (and been hit by Earthquake) would suffer additional damage from the temperature in the air that would act more as 3rd Degree Burns. So farewell to all but Charizard and Infernape (and maybe) Typlosion who are at home in the forested areas or would be in the skies evading the blunt of the AoE Chaos.

Under these circumstances, we will now re-insert the above Logic Driven Arguments, and resume from the Argument 3 (which proceeded the Speed and Endurance Tests) that stipulates the remaining pokemon would all loath the Fire Types literally burning the world and team up, and that would leave three remaining water types and one fire type against a Grass Type... And of the remaining Water Types that are bound to win a three versus two fight, Greninja is the ONLY water type that learns moves that could sufficiently harm Intellion and others.

So my argument that Greninja wins stands the "AoE" and "AoR" as well as the "Speed" and "Endurance" and "Sociological" Tests.

All Adjacent
Lava Plume FIRE

80 100 15
Mind Blown FIRE

150 100 5
Searing Shot FIRE

100 100 5
Boomburst NORMAL

140 100 10
Earthquake GROUND

100 100 10
Magnitude GROUND

— 100 30
Petal Blizzard GRASS

90 100 15
Sludge Wave POISON

95 100 10
Sparkling Aria WATER

90 100 10
Surf WATER

90 100 15


All Adjacent Foes
Air Cutter FLYING

60 95 25
Disarming Voice FAIRY

40 ∞ 15
Hyper Voice NORMAL

90 100 10
Powder Snow ICE

40 100 25
Glaciate ICE

65 95 10
Icy Wind ICE

55 95 15
Blizzard ICE

110 70 5
Bubble WATER

40 100 30
Muddy Water WATER

90 85 10
Splishy Splash WATER

90 100 15
Water Spout WATER

150 100 5
Eruption FIRE

150 100 5
Incinerate FIRE

60 100 15
Cotton Spore GRASS

— 100 40
Razor Leaf GRASS

55 95 25
Rock Slide ROCK

75 90 10

 

[Merciless Medic]

Just to let you know that teachable moves like Splishy Splash, Veevee Volley, Pika Papow, and any other special attacks Partner Pikachu and Partner Eevee can learn via human will not be using those moves in the battle.

Also, the only damaging Ice-Type attacks are Ice Fang and Icy Wind with what is available.

Make sure yall are using the moves I gave for the Pokemon in their list. XD that way we don't end up using moves that won't be used because these Pokemon haven't learned them.

Please keep it to Level-Up moves only. XD

 

[kyuukestu]

Concurred! Here is an additional logic driven "Test" on the "Area of Effect" (AoE) on the "Area of Range" (AoR) scale to examine effect radius and the amount of speed that would be required to move away. Before that, a quick review of the data which, contrary to initial assumptions is overwhelmingly in favor of Water Pokemon who learn nearly half of the moves on this list, and the ability to use Water moves to combat Fire, and he ability to use Ice moves to combat Grass, is unique scheme whereas all other starters counter only one.

In terms of the "AoI" of the moves the average radius of each is about 17 Feet in Range, and requires a minimum frame animation, or "Cast Time" of at least 2-Seconds. This means the earlier test of 10 Meters per 1-Second Speed correlation would allow certain Pokemon to later evade the majority of these AoE abilities as the collective Pokemon either run away (agile ones) or cast spells (the bulkiest of the Starters); from those that surpass the 17-Feet Radius Diameter Rule than we have 9-Moves out of the initial 26-Moves that could affect All Starters.

These moves are as follows: Lava Plume (Fire), Eruption (Fire), Surf (Water), Muddy Water (Water), Blizzard (Ice), Disarming Voice (Normal), Earthquake (Ground), Magnitude (Ground), and Rock Slide (Rock). From these 5-Super Effective on Fire, 0-Super Effective on Water, and 4-Super Effective on Grass. This means contrary to earlier arguments the water types once again have a significant advantage on the others; almost to a 2:1 Ratio which could lead to them being ganged up on, but then cross-fire would again damage those on the other teams.

Now then, in terms of the AoR of each of these nine abilities, the ones with the largest AoR are Eruption, Surf, Blizzard, and Earthquake so those will be considered the most lethal. A well-timed use of any one of these at the start (or more than one) would affect EVERY SINGLE Pokemon in the starting area as they fleed, with the exception of Charizard, Sceptile, Greninja, and Intellion who have the highest speed so at minimum would suffer only shockwaves and mild chills on the outside of of the area of impact. All others would suffer at least 30% dmg.

The Impact Radius of Earthquake would reach all four zones of shelter, but the trees would provide rooted defense to minimize.
The Impact Radius of Surf and Muddy Water likewise would barely reach the four zones of shelter, and be easily repelled by barriers.
The Impact Radius of Blizzard and Eruption are the largest of those remaining, and would also damage the stability of those structures.

Blizzard and Eruption would more or less deal lethal damage to every Grass Pokemon afflicted by both of these, even if escaping, with the exception of Sceptile who has a Speed Coefficient of ~27FT Per Second, and therefore could narrowly evade the radius of Eruption which is estimated at about 50-Square Feet, and be chilled by the Impact Radius of Blizzard which is around 75-Square Feet. This means that of the eight original Grass Pokemon, Sceptile is the only one remaining and could dash to Rocky or Jungle areas to protect against second case.

Eruption being 50-Square Feet WOULD reach the tree-line which was stated to be 20-40 Feet Away (depending who used) and that would also be intense enough to begin a blaze of the forest area, and partial blaze of the damp Jungle Terrain. The water types could easily put out the Jungle Types, and form a barrier to protect themselves, while the Fire Types who did flee the forest (and been hit by Earthquake) would suffer additional damage from the temperature in the air that would act more as 3rd Degree Burns. So farewell to all but Charizard and Infernape (and maybe) Typlosion who are at home in the forested areas or would be in the skies evading the blunt of the AoE Chaos.

Under these circumstances, we will now re-insert the above Logic Driven Arguments, and resume from the Argument 3 (which proceeded the Speed and Endurance Tests) that stipulates the remaining pokemon would all loath the Fire Types literally burning the world and team up, and that would leave three remaining water types and one fire type against a Grass Type... And of the remaining Water Types that are bound to win a three versus two fight, Greninja is the ONLY water type that learns moves that could sufficiently harm Intellion and others.

So my argument that Greninja wins stands the "AoE" and "AoR" as well as the "Speed" and "Endurance" and "Sociological" Tests.

All Adjacent
Lava Plume FIRE

80 100 15
Mind Blown FIRE

150 100 5
Searing Shot FIRE

100 100 5
Boomburst NORMAL

140 100 10
Earthquake GROUND

100 100 10
Magnitude GROUND

— 100 30
Petal Blizzard GRASS

90 100 15
Sludge Wave POISON

95 100 10
Sparkling Aria WATER

90 100 10
Surf WATER

90 100 15


All Adjacent Foes
Air Cutter FLYING

60 95 25
Disarming Voice FAIRY

40 ∞ 15
Hyper Voice NORMAL

90 100 10
Powder Snow ICE

40 100 25
Glaciate ICE

65 95 10
Icy Wind ICE

55 95 15
Blizzard ICE

110 70 5
Bubble WATER

40 100 30
Muddy Water WATER

90 85 10
Splishy Splash WATER

90 100 15
Water Spout WATER

150 100 5
Eruption FIRE

150 100 5
Incinerate FIRE

60 100 15
Cotton Spore GRASS

— 100 40
Razor Leaf GRASS

55 95 25
Rock Slide ROCK

75 90 10

A solid argument, I'd really want to get a reference for all the numbers you're using; but, disregarding that briefly, the move sets are no-where near as idea for water types due to the lack of AoE moves learned naturally.

 

[.Frostbitten.]

A solid argument, I'd really want to get a reference for all the numbers you're using; but, disregarding that briefly, the move sets are no-where near as idea for water types due to the lack of AoE moves learned naturally.

Oh - I apologize, I must have missed this response. I used Bulbapedia References to the Moves within the Anime and the Games; as well as a combination of Serebii Pokedex Base Stat Ratios that informed the Speed Resistance Ratios, and the Endurance Resistance Ratios. From this (Spoiler Alert - Mathematics) one can extrapolate the following two formula used to test for the Speed and Endurance of Pokemon.

For example, the custom calculation for "Speed Analysis" used the hypothetical values of Base Stat (From Serebii) and then this is quantified these by averaging the pool by 100 Points (Division). This places the Pokemon on equal standing, and then if you assume the average move takes between 1.0 to 4.0 Seconds, the earlier outcome is divided by 2.0 Seconds (Average) to produce the linear string and "Truth" Result.

If the Result comes below 4.0 (Maximum Cast Time) we can confidently assume that the Pokemon is "HIT" under any circumstances,

Speed Formula: (Base Stat / 100 * 2.0)
Endurance Formula: (Base HP / 100 * (60 - (0.1 * Defense Value)))

Example:
Venusaur Speed Test: (181 / 100 * 2.0) Result is 3.61 and is now considered affected by the ability.
Venusaur Health Test: (270 / 100 * (60 - 27.6)) Result is 87.48 Damage out of 270 Health Points.
Venusaur is now considered at 67.6% of base Health and then the next move triggers again.

Repeat this for all 14 Pokemon considered too slow to move away, and these are all eliminated.
Repeat this for all 10 Pokemon remaining and another four of them are injured, two are KO.
Repeat this for all 8 Pokemon remaining and another two of them are injured, two are KO.
And now we have Charizard, Infernape, Sceptile, Serperior, Greninja and Intellion remain.

Now, the more important question, who else loves these random mathematical physics problems and equations?

 

[creastysomp]

I think a description of the terrain from @Merciless Medic would be in order. As I said in mine, a more natural setting came to my mind, perhaps a forest or an island. And island with a forest and volcano actually provides ‘favored’ terrain for all three types, now that I think about it.
hellodear.in

tea tv apk

 

[badnishant79]

Now that all the information is on the table, I would like you guys to discuss amongst yourselves (with me included) who will win the fight. Use all the information given to see who would win. Honestly, I don't have high hopes for Partner Pikachu and Partner Eevee. Their blows dealt will be decent, but they don't have the HP or the Defenses to last as long as the big contenders.

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