DPPt/HGSS Marowak and Umbreon and Electrode. (UPDATED! Seeking review.)

[[Team] Rocket Scientist]

I'm continuing my search of a good Team, and I have added two poke Pokemon to the list: Marowak and Umbreon. They will be dancing alongside an Electrode, for the record.
Now, my problem lies in the movesets.

Just for an update, this is what I have now:

Electrode @ Leichi Berry
Static Ability (30% Paralyze on Direct Contact from foe.)
Hasty Nature (+Speed, -Defense)
EVs: 130 Attack, 252 Special Attack, 126 Speed
Substitute
Magnet Rise / Thunder Wave
Thunderbolt
Explosion

The only question lies in: Magnet Ride or Thunder Wave?

Marowak @ Thick Club
Lightning Rod Ability (All Electric-type attacks will hit Marowak instead of their original target.)
Jolly Nature (+Speed, -Sp. Attack)
EVs: 252 Attack, 252 Speed, 6 HP
Swords Dance
Earthquake
Stone Edge
Aerial Ace

I read somewhere that with a Jolly nature, and maxed EV speeds, Marowak can outrun about anything on the lower-end of the speed chain. I don't know if that's true, but it sounds reliable enough. I substituted Belly Drum for Swords Dance, and kept the three main attacking moves. Marowak can also learn Fire/Thunder Punch, but more-than-likely only through Emerald, which I don't have. I only own Diamond, despite that I used to have every version of the US Pokemon Gameboy games. Therfore, it would seem to be too much of a hassle to get. I chose Lightning Rod over Rock Head because one: I love double battles, and two: he's not utilising Double Edge.

Umbreon @ Leftovers
Synchronize Ability (Passes on inflicted Poison/Burn/Paralysis to the foe.)
252 HP, 126 Def, 126 Sp. Def, 6Speed
Yawn / Toxic
Protect / Mean Look
Wish
Baton Pass

I kept wish and baton pass, and I am now fighting whether to do Yawn/Protect or Toxic/Mean Look. I can force poison on foes and stall till they're KOd, or I can put them to sleep, protect from their attack, wish, and pass it on. I think I'm leaning towards the latter (Toxic/Mean Look).

 

[Ruko]

if the toxic orb idea works on Umbreon, I have to say I've never seen it done before... and that's really thinking about it from a different angle ^^

if you decide not to give it the Toxic orb, may I suggest

Wish
Yawn/Confuse Ray
Protect/Assurance
Baton Pass

you won't get any attacks off of it, but it can make a half decent support to your team. yawn + protect works nicely together, as does Confuse Ray + Assurance. Confuse ray does damage to them while they're faster, then Assurance does double damage [in case you go with the orb].
all in all, I like the Yawn set better if you're going to be by a potentially exploding electrode XD

for Marowak, consider Bonemerang.
it has it's inaccuracy, but makes a great anti-substitute.
it's also one of those situations where using two attacks of the same type can be a good thing.

Earthquake
Aerial Ace
Stone Edge/Rock Slide/Brick Break
Belly Drum/Swords Dance

unless Stealth rock was a must on it, I think another attacking move is better for something with such high attack. Also, with such high attack, Swords Dance may be all you need, rather than sacrificing your HP to Belly Drum

also a riskier set if you were to go with Bonemerang

Bonemerang
Double Kick
Aerial Ace/Stone Edge
Focus Energy

Multi-hit attacks + Focus energy is a decent combo that not many pokemon can actually pull off. as I said this set is riskier, but may pay off in the end. I'm mostly against Stone Edge for it's accuracy, but it's high critical with a critical boosting move can also be nice [I REALLY hate it when I miss though >>]

 

[[Team] Rocket Scientist]

I totally meant Stone Edge. I typoed hard, right there.
Anyways, my Marowak was technically good-to-go, then?
I like the Yawn/Protect, idea, too. Very nice!
Now that I think about it, though, I think I've heard somewhere that it doesn't work with self-inflicted statuses. I don't know for sure, though.
I think that, for Umbreon, I may just go with:
Yawn
Protect
Wish
Baton Pass

It's like. Put them to sleep, don't get hit, wish, INSTA-HEAL. So he's pretty much a super-annoying healer. I like it. Now if he doesn't get cornered out.

Any ideas for EVs? I'm horrible with those. I was thinking of (for Umbreon) 252 hp, 126Def, 126Sp.Def.
And maybe 252 Attack and 252 Defense on Marowak?

(Would you mind taking a look at my Electrode thread? Scratch that, here's my current Electrode idea.)

Electrode @ Life Orb
Hasty Nature (+Speed, -Defense)
EVs: 130 Attack, 252 Special Attack, 126 Speed
Thunderbolt
Thunder Wave
Magnet Rise
Explosion

 

[KoL]

Here's a rather far-fetched idea for your Electrode that I kinda plucked out of nowhere:

Electrode @ Liechi Berry

- Thunderbolt
- Magnet Rise
- Explosion
- Substitute

Thunder Wave isn't really needed on Electrode, since he'll almost always be faster than the opponent anyway (only Ninjask and Deoxys will beat you unboosted) plus after Thunder Wave he may have to take a hit, which Electrode doesn't want to have to do. Sub works like this: Electrode will effectively always get the Sub in before the opponent gets their attack off, so at the most he'll be taking 1/4 HP damage every turn (unless Ruko's Marowak turns up!) After 4-5 Subs, depending on what your HP value is, you should end up triggering Liechi Berry to give a boost to your Attack stat. You'll be out of Subs at this point too, so go out with a bang and clobber your opponent with a Liechi-boosted Explosion. Of course, this isn't the only application for this, since with your Umbreon's Wish-passing abilities you'll be able to heal Electrode and give him more Substitutes when he needs them. Also keep in mind that the Liechi/Explosion combo is very predictable - as soon as the opponent sees the Liechi boost your Attack stat, they will expect to receive an Explosion the turn after and may switch out to someone who can resist. You could make use of this by (if you see a switch coming) using Thunderbolt instead, and then Exploding later.

 

[[Team] Rocket Scientist]

I really like that idea a lot, actually. And then I don't have to worry about Hidden Power!
Would I go with the same EV spread that I previously mentioned, or would you suggest something different?
Also, where do I get a Liechi berry? I don't think I have one. ;___;

 

[KoL]

Your current EV spread looks OK to me, since Liechi should boost your Attack stat enough to KO or at least severely damage a foe unless they are a Physical Wall, in which case the 252 EV'd Thunderbolt will prove very handy. EV's aren't my forte unfortunately, so it's probably best for you to see what other people think as well.

The easiest way to get a Liechi Berry is to get one from Battle Revolution, although they do cost quite a lot. The only other method I know of is via Mirage Island in R/S/E, but the odds of Mirage Island appearing are so close to zero that this method isn't worth trying. You could also see if someone would be willing to trade you one.

 

[Ruko]

After 4-5 Subs, depending on what your HP value is

I just wanted to point out, that should be 3-4 subs. as long as your HP isn't divisible by four, you can get four subs from it.

on an Electrode that's relying on subs anyway, I like the idea of Thunderwave on it rather than Magnet rise... not because I think Elecrode will be slower, but because of the potential stunning effect of it. If you're using Subs at the same rate they're being destroyed, the only thing you'll really get to do is explode. In the event they try to hit you with a status effect while you have the subs up, this'll give you a chance to return the favor.

a final note to be aware of, the liechi berry is a flag saying "I'm about to explode", so having your HP not divisible by four will allow one more substitute, and if they switch or Protect, you can be more prepared for it, since protect is less likely to work on the next turn. If they switch to a Physical wall that isn't ground type, then you'll have a subs up to protect you, and a couple of thunderbolts can probably take down a solely physical wall

 

[[Team] Rocket Scientist]

I don't have revolution - yet - but the nearest times are August fifth, or December twenty-fifth. My birthday, or Christmas. Main reason, really, is because I don't have a Wii. I guess the Leichi is something I have to add to my list in the WiFi/Trade Forum.

Back on topic, would I use Magnet Rise/Thunder Wave first, or Sub (and if I don't get attacked, luckily) and use one or the other? Also, I'll now have to debate with myself with which one is better to have. :-P

Just for an update for myself, this is what I have now (Which I will also be modifying into the main post):

Electrode @ Leichi Berry
Static Ability (30% Paralyze on Direct Contact from foe.)
Hasty Nature (+Speed, -Defense)
EVs: 130 Attack, 252 Special Attack, 126 Speed
Substitute
Magnet Rise / Thunder Wave
Thunderbolt
Explosion

The only question lies in: Magnet Ride or Thunder Wave?

Marowak @ Thick Club
Lightning Rod Ability (All Electric-type attacks will hit Marowak instead of their original target.)
Jolly Nature (+Speed, -Sp. Attack)
EVs: 252 Attack, 252 Speed, 6 HP
Swords Dance
Earthquake
Stone Edge
Aerial Ace

I read somewhere that with a Jolly nature, and maxed EV speeds, Marowak can outrun about anything on the lower-end of the speed chain. I don't know if that's true, but it sounds reliable enough. I substituted Belly Drum for Swords Dance, and kept the three main attacking moves. Marowak can also learn Fire/Thunder Punch, but more-than-likely only through Emerald, which I don't have. I only own Diamond, despite that I used to have every version of the US Pokemon Gameboy games. Therfore, it would seem to be too much of a hassle to get. I chose Lightning Rod over Rock Head because one: I love double battles, and two: he's not utilising Double Edge.

Umbreon @ Leftovers
Synchronize Ability (Passes on inflicted Poison/Burn/Paralysis to the foe.)
252 HP, 126 Def, 126 Sp. Def, 6Speed
Yawn / Toxic
Protect / Mean Look
Wish
Baton Pass

I kept wish and baton pass, and I am now fighting whether to do Yawn/Protect or Toxic/Mean Look. I can force poison on foes and stall till they're KOd, or I can put them to sleep, protect from their attack, wish, and pass it on. I think I'm leaning towards the latter (Toxic/Mean Look).

 

[Ruko]

Back on topic, would I use Magnet Rise/Thunder Wave first, or Sub (and if I don't get attacked, luckily) and use one or the other? Also, I'll now have to debate with myself with which one is better to have. :-P

like I said, if you give it subs, I don't even think Electrode should have magnet rise, but if it has thunder wave, I'd suggest using subs first. if your opponent used a status effect based attack, such as confusion, lowering your defense [which will fail], or raising their own stats, THEN use thunderwave. otherwise you're going to be behinds subs the whole time until you explode.

If you think you can take them down with two thunderbolts, use that instead of Thunder wave. Subs will give you the chance to do that if they did something that wasn't a damaging attack.

[quote author=[Team] Rocket Scientist link=topic=4590.msg66445#msg66445 date=1216165583]
The only question lies in: Magnet Ride or Thunder Wave?
[/quote]

lol, magnet ride
anyhow, I've already expressed that I think a crippling move would be more fitting, but it's still up to your opinion there


For Marowak, a Jolly Nature will let it outrun some slower pokemon, but I'd still just give it Attack and Defense training. Pair it with a Togekiss that has Follow me, and you'll be able to seriously annoy some people. Togekiss could Follow me some grass attacks, and Marowak's lightning rod will take electric attacks. One is physical, one is special. they are both weak to Ice, however.



with Umbreon, Yawn + Protect still has one major flaw; your opponent can just switch. Mean look + toxic is nice, but Toxic + Protect on a pokemon with Leftovers is really effective. they still might switch, but you left their pokemon poisoned if they do. I liked Yawn over toxic because it isn't walled by steels like the traditional Toxic Umbreon is.

and if you go with Yawn + Protect, you don't even really need Baton Pass to switch... it's a nice insurance that if they do wake up, umbreon will take the attack, but it's unlikely for them to wake that early.

 

[[Team] Rocket Scientist]

I guess we're done here, then.
Thanks, everyone, for your help.
I'll be sure to see you around, Ruko. :-P