just a quick question,
as long as both battlers agree must we follow these rules? ???
as long as both battlers agree must we follow these rules? ???
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DPPt/HGSS [Old] Standard Battle Rules - The Default for all battles on Pokecharms
- Thread starter Doctor Oak
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Read the comment just above yours. You can battle anyway you want as long as your opponent agrees. If your gonna do a battle thread just state your own rules if you dont like these.
I was looking at the list of pokemon legendary that can be used if the rules say no hacked pokemon why can you only use one shaymin when pokemon Platinum hasn't come out yet? Just wondering honestly and sorry if it sparked my curiousity.
You can obtain Shaymin by means of a glitch in the Japanese games, legally in Japan since last month and by simply hacking the event to capture Shaymin.
In terms of hacked Pokemon, it means Pokemon that you have altered to have perfect stats, natures, moves it can't learn, etc. If you merely hacked a Pokemon to encounter its species in the wild or activate the event to capture it, it's still considered legal.
In terms of hacked Pokemon, it means Pokemon that you have altered to have perfect stats, natures, moves it can't learn, etc. If you merely hacked a Pokemon to encounter its species in the wild or activate the event to capture it, it's still considered legal.
So, what's the consensus on the new Rotom, Shaymin and Giratina formes and their place in the ruleset?
Shaymin goes right into banned. It's stats in the Sky Forme have been geared to an all-out attack. With a Speed of 127, S.Atk of 120, HP of 100, and an okay Atk of 103. In retrospect, it has the tenth highest speed overall, above Weavile and Swellow. Combine Air Slash with Serene Grace and Seed Flare, which has a 80% chance to lower the opponents S.Def by a stage, Shaymin will just crush Pokemon without a huge investment of S.Def and a way of getting its S.Def back to its original level.
Rotom only gets one new move per forme plus whatever it can learn through the Move Tutors. Aside from better stat distribution, it really doesn't get much of an improvment.
Giratina has no new known moves of as now. All Giratina gets now is Levitate, and instead of Base 100 Attack stats and Base 120 Defense stats from the Another Forme, the Origin Forme has Base 120 Attack Stats and Base 100 Defenses. As of now, if Giratina doesn't get any new moves that set it apart, it could be left where it is.
So, Shaymin could/should get banned from standard play, Rotom can stay where it is and Giratina can be moved later if it gets a new move or not (highly doubt it will get a new move) but it could be one of those Pokemon that should be limited.
Rotom only gets one new move per forme plus whatever it can learn through the Move Tutors. Aside from better stat distribution, it really doesn't get much of an improvment.
Giratina has no new known moves of as now. All Giratina gets now is Levitate, and instead of Base 100 Attack stats and Base 120 Defense stats from the Another Forme, the Origin Forme has Base 120 Attack Stats and Base 100 Defenses. As of now, if Giratina doesn't get any new moves that set it apart, it could be left where it is.
So, Shaymin could/should get banned from standard play, Rotom can stay where it is and Giratina can be moved later if it gets a new move or not (highly doubt it will get a new move) but it could be one of those Pokemon that should be limited.
An update for 2009's Pokemon Championships in Japan in relation to Platinum lists Rotom as being banned...
This is their full banned list:
This is their full banned list:
Ruko
Bearded Trout Warrior
As pointed out in chat, the only [not already banned] pokemon that have a higher base speed than Skymin are Ninjask, Electrode, Jolteon, Aerodactyl and Crobat. Out of which, Ninjask Aerodactyl and Crobat are the only ones that can hit for super-effective damage without hidden power.
Anything else would likely fall prey to an Air Slash with a 60% Flinch rate and enough power to 2HKO a standard pokemon.
I vote ban it
Anything else would likely fall prey to an Air Slash with a 60% Flinch rate and enough power to 2HKO a standard pokemon.
I vote ban it
Sorry if this is a silly question, but why is Tyranitar on the 2009's Pokemon Championships banned list? He's the only definite none-legendary on there, and surely he has enough weaknesses not to be banned...
Again, sorry if I'm just being dim, but I'm just curious as to why, or whether it's a mistake or something.
Ruko
Bearded Trout Warrior
Best explanation I can offer:
Going by stat totals, Dragonite, Tyranitar, Salamence, Metagross, and Garchomp all have the same stats as certain legendaries. Among the legendaries they share the total of 600 with are Mew and its clones, Deoxys, Heatran, Darkrai and Cresselia.
Tyranitar's ability also summons an endless sandstorm, and the sandstorm boosts its Special Defense putting it a notch above the rest in that sense.
Garchomp was recently promoted to Uber status on another website as well.
Going by stat totals, Dragonite, Tyranitar, Salamence, Metagross, and Garchomp all have the same stats as certain legendaries. Among the legendaries they share the total of 600 with are Mew and its clones, Deoxys, Heatran, Darkrai and Cresselia.
Tyranitar's ability also summons an endless sandstorm, and the sandstorm boosts its Special Defense putting it a notch above the rest in that sense.
Garchomp was recently promoted to Uber status on another website as well.
Ruko
Bearded Trout Warrior
Ice Punch
Thunder Punch
Stone Edge
Zen Headbutt
Blaze Kick
High Jump kick/Close Combat/many others
Crunch
Bullet Punch
Extremespeed
Earthquake
Aura Sphere
Dragon Pulse
Dark Pulse
Flash Cannon
Psychic
Shadow Ball
Magnet Rise
Swords Dance
Agility
What I present are all of the most dangerous moves in Lucario's movepool as of Platinum. Considering all of those, I'd like to ask that it be moved up to restricted status.
It has ten resistances and three weaknesses, two after Magnet Rise.
70 HP
110 Atk
70 Def
115 Sp. Atk
70 Sp. Def
90 Spd
Those stats, the sheer unpredictablity of its movepool, and the fact that nearly everyone uses it are my reasons for saying it should be bumped up. While it's not as bad as Mew, wasn't mew banned more for it's movepool than stats? Lucario has lower stats in both defenses, but many more resistances.
I am extremely biased against Lucario, and am sick of seeing it on nearly every team in existence, but I think I've shown well enough that it should be moved up to the restricted list.
Thunder Punch
Stone Edge
Zen Headbutt
Blaze Kick
High Jump kick/Close Combat/many others
Crunch
Bullet Punch
Extremespeed
Earthquake
Aura Sphere
Dragon Pulse
Dark Pulse
Flash Cannon
Psychic
Shadow Ball
Magnet Rise
Swords Dance
Agility
What I present are all of the most dangerous moves in Lucario's movepool as of Platinum. Considering all of those, I'd like to ask that it be moved up to restricted status.
It has ten resistances and three weaknesses, two after Magnet Rise.
70 HP
110 Atk
70 Def
115 Sp. Atk
70 Sp. Def
90 Spd
Those stats, the sheer unpredictablity of its movepool, and the fact that nearly everyone uses it are my reasons for saying it should be bumped up. While it's not as bad as Mew, wasn't mew banned more for it's movepool than stats? Lucario has lower stats in both defenses, but many more resistances.
I am extremely biased against Lucario, and am sick of seeing it on nearly every team in existence, but I think I've shown well enough that it should be moved up to the restricted list.
When presented the facts like that, I'll have to agree with Ruko. Lucario is one of the best competitive battling Pokemon out there and is just as worthy as the pseudo-legendaries. And I'm not biased against Lucario, quite the opposite (after all I have like three and plan on making more). But Lucario deserves to have the same status as Metagross and the others. Even with it's relatively poor defenses and it's weaknesses, Lucario has the means to cover them and STAB'd Aura Sphere is deadly in and of itself.
WIth that presented, Luacario is indeed very predictable - and yet it's greatest downfall is it's merely average speed.
It is ofcourse a beast is every other respeact, although I'm biased because:
a) It's nickname is like my nickname
b) I have one on my team.
I see you point though, and it's debatable.
It is ofcourse a beast is every other respeact, although I'm biased because:
a) It's nickname is like my nickname
b) I have one on my team.
I see you point though, and it's debatable.
I kinda have to disagree since there is a rule set that says that "No more than one Pokemon of each species on a team" so really a person battling shouldn't have 2 lucarios on a team so why put it on a restricted list unless your talking about the trading card game? but than again you did put stats up of the game one but what I am mainly saying that isn't all pokemon restricted to 1 of each species mainly I think really the rule should be changed alittle to No more than one pokemon of each type on a team but that is just my opinion, I like my lucario and I have tons of them but I only battle with one on my team because mutilple pokemon of the same type is mostly asking for a quick lost. One earthquake will destroy him quickly or a flamethrower and a good bit of pokemon can learn earthquake but as I said this is only my opinion.
Ruko
Bearded Trout Warrior
I meant I wanted to add it to that list... not restricted as in no more than 1 Lucario per team, that's already placed on every pokemon. I mean this restricted where you're only allowed one pokemon from the list on your team. If you have one of them, you can't use any of the rest.
than that would bite for me since i already have latias on my team then i have to spend another month or so trying to figure out what to exchange it with for my battling style really *sigh* I still have to disagree on it because i don't think lucario is as powerful as everyone think he/she is i top of that I really would like to know what magnet raise does to lucario to make it eliminate 1 weakness?
[edit] nevermind found it on magneton. chances that i will actually use magnet rise is still a zero percent i like my moveset the way it is taking away any of the moves my lucario got will mess up his ability to fight off some types
[edit] nevermind found it on magneton. chances that i will actually use magnet rise is still a zero percent i like my moveset the way it is taking away any of the moves my lucario got will mess up his ability to fight off some types
Ruko
Bearded Trout Warrior
I'm sure -many- people will have to change their teams if this goes through... part of the reason I want it to go through is to further spur something called "originality" with people.
Everyone and their grandmother uses a Lucario it seems like, and with the new moves it has [even if -you- don't see their use] I think Lucario is powerful enough that other people will actually choose it over the other restricted pokemon.
Like I said, I am extremely biased against Lucario, but giving the reason that you don't want it restricted because you'll have to change your team is being biased towards Lucario. If you actually don't think it's powerful enough, then that's your opinion and I'll leave it alone >>
Everyone and their grandmother uses a Lucario it seems like, and with the new moves it has [even if -you- don't see their use] I think Lucario is powerful enough that other people will actually choose it over the other restricted pokemon.
Like I said, I am extremely biased against Lucario, but giving the reason that you don't want it restricted because you'll have to change your team is being biased towards Lucario. If you actually don't think it's powerful enough, then that's your opinion and I'll leave it alone >>
I'd say I agree with Ruko, Pheonix and Carmen. Lucario is extremely overused and now thanks to the Move Tutors has a deadly Movepool (Methinks the creators have played favourite with him XD).
While his defenses are quite low, his resistances and his ability to basically cover his weaknesses are reason enough to have him restricted. Like Carmen said, he's more than equal to the pseudo-legendaries, and should be treated as such. I've never used or trained one, so I don't consider myself biased in any way
I'm for having him restricted, mostly just to encourage some diversity in teams XD
While his defenses are quite low, his resistances and his ability to basically cover his weaknesses are reason enough to have him restricted. Like Carmen said, he's more than equal to the pseudo-legendaries, and should be treated as such. I've never used or trained one, so I don't consider myself biased in any way
I'm for having him restricted, mostly just to encourage some diversity in teams XD
Given my username, this will probably seem rather biased, but I don't think Lucario should be restricted even with these new moves, for several reasons:
- Base 90 Speed, in my opinion, is poor for a sweeper with defenses as low as Lucario's, and Agility to boost it is a waste of a moveslot for something that could be far more useful. Plus, practically every sweeper in the game faster than Lucario has a move that is super-effective against him (Starmie and Jolteon are the only Pokemon who comes to mind that don't,) so his resistances are outweighed by the fact that the 3 types he's weak to are so common. His new moves don't change this.
- Even with all those new movepool options, some of his new moves will likely become practically standard (Ice Punch/Thunderpunch for physical BoltBeam for instance,) and his Special movepool has not changed at all. The Endure/Reversal moveset for Lucario won't have changed at all either with these new additions. If anything, the additions of the elemental punches will make him MORE predictable since almost everyone will be using them.
- Finally, Lucario was immensely popular before these new moves came up, and these new moves won't make the people who don't like him change their minds about using him. In fact, if the people who don't like him react the same way you did Ruko, they'll be even less inclined to use him because of his new moves.
I've tried to be as unbiased as possible here, but I seriously don't think Lucario should be restricted. Semi-restricting him along with the starters would be reasonable though I think.
- Base 90 Speed, in my opinion, is poor for a sweeper with defenses as low as Lucario's, and Agility to boost it is a waste of a moveslot for something that could be far more useful. Plus, practically every sweeper in the game faster than Lucario has a move that is super-effective against him (Starmie and Jolteon are the only Pokemon who comes to mind that don't,) so his resistances are outweighed by the fact that the 3 types he's weak to are so common. His new moves don't change this.
- Even with all those new movepool options, some of his new moves will likely become practically standard (Ice Punch/Thunderpunch for physical BoltBeam for instance,) and his Special movepool has not changed at all. The Endure/Reversal moveset for Lucario won't have changed at all either with these new additions. If anything, the additions of the elemental punches will make him MORE predictable since almost everyone will be using them.
- Finally, Lucario was immensely popular before these new moves came up, and these new moves won't make the people who don't like him change their minds about using him. In fact, if the people who don't like him react the same way you did Ruko, they'll be even less inclined to use him because of his new moves.
I've tried to be as unbiased as possible here, but I seriously don't think Lucario should be restricted. Semi-restricting him along with the starters would be reasonable though I think.
I must admit, I'm about as biased as Carmen with this one because ever since the 8th movie I've been a Lucario fangirl (just look at my current MSN avatar XD). I've trained two now and, like Carmen, will probably do at least a couple more - especially with all these new combo possibilities.
So you can trust I'm being honest when I say that I too agree that Lucario has become heavily overused and, with these new attack additions, will only continue to become even moreso abused. It's true that the majority of people I know have trained and used Lucario. Not everyone still uses it (a bit of the fanwhoreism surrounding has died down) but many, many still do. Why? It's not just because of the 8th movie or Brawl or whatnot anymore. It's because Lucario is genuinely a great Pokemon when used properly, and STAB'd Aura Sphere is just a deadly thing people love to abuse. The power and no missing parts of it were great enough, but by being a Special-based attack it makes it effective against the things most other fighting attacks are not (Rocks and Steel-types).
But yeah. Seeing this increased move pool, Aura Sphere isn't the only thing Lucario can abuse now. Favoritism with these tutors really did a number on it.
I'd like to point out why that list of restricted Pokemon was founded. We agreed upon it not just because of the power of the included Pokemon, but the overuse of them. Blissey comes to mind in a big way. I've battled the Blissey/Skarmory combination before, and I can beat it back easily with certain Pokemon. That doesn't make it less annoying due to the amount of people who use to abuse it. The same goes for Blissey on its own. Blissey might have some high stats, but not all, and it CAN be taken down easily enough with the right Pokemon. This is no different than Lucario's situation. What ties them together is what I've already mentioned above.
Also, this:
I strongly disagree. Yes, Agility can be seen as a waste of a moveset if you're the type of person who focuses on offensive attacks only... but not all of us are. A lot of people realize the usefulness in stat changing attacks like that, and you seriously can not count out Agility as a useful attack when used properly. With all of Lucario's resistances, you can find an opening to use it properly, too. Agility can make my Lucario - netural speed nature, 28 speed IV - out speed a positive nature, 31 IV, fully speed EV trained Crobat with no speed EV training whatsoever. With a decent speed IV and Agility, you can not speed EV train Lucario at all and focus all of your EVs at either split attack training or, dare I say it, defense training. If THAT isn't useful, I don't know what else you'd call it.
And just a small note but, while it will probably go unused by most, Magnet Rise does change things a bit for Lucario, so you can't exactly say the new moves didn't give him a bit of extra resistance against his weaknesses ^^'
In the end, I too agree that Lucario probably should be added to the restricted list with Blissey and the rest. If for any other reason, than for its overusedness.
Apologies for the wordiness >>;
So you can trust I'm being honest when I say that I too agree that Lucario has become heavily overused and, with these new attack additions, will only continue to become even moreso abused. It's true that the majority of people I know have trained and used Lucario. Not everyone still uses it (a bit of the fanwhoreism surrounding has died down) but many, many still do. Why? It's not just because of the 8th movie or Brawl or whatnot anymore. It's because Lucario is genuinely a great Pokemon when used properly, and STAB'd Aura Sphere is just a deadly thing people love to abuse. The power and no missing parts of it were great enough, but by being a Special-based attack it makes it effective against the things most other fighting attacks are not (Rocks and Steel-types).
But yeah. Seeing this increased move pool, Aura Sphere isn't the only thing Lucario can abuse now. Favoritism with these tutors really did a number on it.
I'd like to point out why that list of restricted Pokemon was founded. We agreed upon it not just because of the power of the included Pokemon, but the overuse of them. Blissey comes to mind in a big way. I've battled the Blissey/Skarmory combination before, and I can beat it back easily with certain Pokemon. That doesn't make it less annoying due to the amount of people who use to abuse it. The same goes for Blissey on its own. Blissey might have some high stats, but not all, and it CAN be taken down easily enough with the right Pokemon. This is no different than Lucario's situation. What ties them together is what I've already mentioned above.
Also, this:
I strongly disagree. Yes, Agility can be seen as a waste of a moveset if you're the type of person who focuses on offensive attacks only... but not all of us are. A lot of people realize the usefulness in stat changing attacks like that, and you seriously can not count out Agility as a useful attack when used properly. With all of Lucario's resistances, you can find an opening to use it properly, too. Agility can make my Lucario - netural speed nature, 28 speed IV - out speed a positive nature, 31 IV, fully speed EV trained Crobat with no speed EV training whatsoever. With a decent speed IV and Agility, you can not speed EV train Lucario at all and focus all of your EVs at either split attack training or, dare I say it, defense training. If THAT isn't useful, I don't know what else you'd call it.
And just a small note but, while it will probably go unused by most, Magnet Rise does change things a bit for Lucario, so you can't exactly say the new moves didn't give him a bit of extra resistance against his weaknesses ^^'
In the end, I too agree that Lucario probably should be added to the restricted list with Blissey and the rest. If for any other reason, than for its overusedness.
Apologies for the wordiness >>;
Don't worry about the wordiness, the more you say the easier it'll be to come to a final decision. I spoke to Ruko in the chat about it yesterday, and while we've agreed that Lucario getting these new moves does indeed make it a lot more powerful than it was before, I'm still skeptical as to whether these improvements will really make it as dominant and powerful as people say. In theory, I'll admit that it is looking like it will pose a major threat to a lot of teams, but in practice, well...Platinum hasn't even been out for two weeks yet in Japan, and the new Lucario hasn't been used hardly, if at all, yet.
At the very least, I think Lucario should be tested to see if it will be as truly powerful as it seems to be before a final decision is made on it.
At the very least, I think Lucario should be tested to see if it will be as truly powerful as it seems to be before a final decision is made on it.
When thinking about whether Lucario should be added to that restricted list, the real question is: does combining Lucario with one of those Pokemon break a team?
I don't think it does, but I'd agree with whatever the general consensus is.
I don't think it does, but I'd agree with whatever the general consensus is.
Ruko
Bearded Trout Warrior
...combining Dragonite, Salamence, and Garchomp doesn't break a team, really >>
It gives it a huge ice weakness.
I'd have to say it doesn't break the team, to be honest.. but I don't think any of the pokemon that aren't banned do. Snorlax is the only thing that comes to mind from the restricted list.
It gives it a huge ice weakness.
I'd have to say it doesn't break the team, to be honest.. but I don't think any of the pokemon that aren't banned do. Snorlax is the only thing that comes to mind from the restricted list.
I also think he should still be put on the list.
Like Ruko said, the Dragons together don't break a team - a good Ice/Bulky water Pokemon can deal with them pretty well. Most teams have an 'Anti-Dragon' Pokemon anyway. Lucario is more than overused. Restricting him may spark some originality.
Like Ruko said, the Dragons together don't break a team - a good Ice/Bulky water Pokemon can deal with them pretty well. Most teams have an 'Anti-Dragon' Pokemon anyway. Lucario is more than overused. Restricting him may spark some originality.
I still stand by my idea of semi-restricting him along with the starters. The restricted list is generally, by the looks of it, for non-uber legendaries, pseudo-legendaries, and anything that is just incredibly strong and difficult to kill (Snorlax, Blissey.) As far as I'm concerned, Lucario is none of the above. The semi-restricted list is there to stop people from making all-starter teams (which I've seen tons of,) and these teams appear because the starters are incredibly popular and range from being pretty strong (Venusaur) to outright deadly (Infernape.) I think Lucario fits in with the starters a lot more than it does with the legendaries/pseudo-legendaries.
Like I said before, I don't find Blissey hard to kill when I have the right Pokemon on hand, and the right Pokemon tend to be as frequent for me as those who could take down Lucario effortlessly. It's when you don't have those choice Pokemon that you're in trouble >>;
I just don't feel that adding him to the semi-restricted list will stem the issue. It'll still be appearing on a huge amount of teams just as it is now, mostly likely matched with Pokemon of the restricted list. Putting him on that list would just be all-out more effective.
I just don't feel that adding him to the semi-restricted list will stem the issue. It'll still be appearing on a huge amount of teams just as it is now, mostly likely matched with Pokemon of the restricted list. Putting him on that list would just be all-out more effective.
I've been thinking about the topic for some time now, and have been testing out various movesets for the 3 competitive Lucario that I own, to try and come to a conclusion for this, after taking into account things that me, Ruko and Linkachu discussed in chat. The main point is that as of right now, Lucario has the most diverse movepool of all non-uber Pokemon (Mew and Rayquaza come to mind mostly) and the movesets Lucario has available to it will be improved with the addition of Thunder/Ice Punch, and possibly Magnet Rise when Platinum swings by. Anyway, here's a little showcase of my 3, soon to be 4, Lucario movesets, starting with my basic physical sweeper. The moves in brackets are my pre-Platinum ones, and the ones I have right now:
Lucario @ Life Orb
Adamant
Inner Focus
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- ThunderPunch (Blaze Kick)
- Ice Punch (ExtremeSpeed)
Look familiar? It should do - I swiped the moveset from Electivire. As Jet has said on several occasions, this moveset has a super-effective attack against all single types except Ghost, Bug, Psychic and Fighting.
Here's my special one:
Lucario @ Life Orb
Modest
Inner Focus
- Aura Sphere
- Psychic
- Dark Pulse
- Dragon Pulse
Very good coverage there - lucky for us Lucario doesn't get Ice Beam/Thunderbolt, or we'd definitely be in trouble. As I said though, good coverage, and getting STAB on a special Fighting-type move will put off the usual Special walls in the game (Blissey and Regice mostly.)
Here's my mixed Lucario. The elemental punches are Platinum additions, whilst the other moves are what I have now:
Lucario @ Life Orb
Steadfast (should be Inner Focus, but bleh)
Hasty
- Aura Sphere
- Me First/ThunderPunch (Earthquake/Me First)
- Ice Punch (Stone Edge)
- Agility
This one I've been playing around with for ages, hence the amount of Move 1/Move 2 involved in the moveset. Basically, a Mixed Sweeper with a Me Firsty twist - all EV's are on Attack and Special Attack, with Agility to boost the Speed to deadly levels. Me First has yet to be tested extensively, although in theory it should work since no-one expects it to be there, and with Agility I will be able to outspeed the opponent to make good use of it. Me First appears twice since I may still use it when Platinum arrives, depending on the success I get with it.
And this will be my fourth once I get around to it:
Lucario @ Salac Berry
Inner Focus
Adamant
- Reversal
- Crunch
- Endure
- Swords Dance
Garchomp's not the only Pokemon specializing in pure damage output in these lands. Lucario is the only Pokemon in the game to get STAB'ed Reversal and Sandstorm immunity, making him the best Endure-Reversaller in the game.
This, basically, is the reason why we're here - this movepool diversity is the reason why Ruko suggested Lucario get slammed with restriction in the first place. I, at first, didn't consider Lucario to be as much of a threat as say, Snorlax, Suicune and the Pseudo-legendaries, which are easily some of the most dominant stand-alone Pokemon in the competitive game, and thus I was against his restriction. We've since discussed this in chat, however, and after taking into account Ruko's and Linkachu's points for resticting Lucario, I decided I'd do some tests to see how threatening I could make Lucario be, and I think the four movesets above speak for themselves - alone, they may seem fairly standard, but the thing that makes my Lucario so dangerous is that you have no idea which of these movesets I'm using against you, and for anyone who hasn't read this, they have no idea what moves I have at all, since using one move doesn't reveal any of the others, and guessing the moveset wrongly can at best, lose the opponent one Pokemon, or at worst, get the opponent's whole team wasted in seconds. In a way, Lucario almost has the infamous Wobbuffet trait of almost always being able to kill at least one Pokemon before going down - if you try to wall Lucario and guess the moveset type wrong, the would-be wall is toast (e.g. Blissey tries to wall Lucario and gets OHKO'd by Close Combat.) If Wobs comes in against the right Pokemon, that Pokemon is doomed (pops up against someone with all 4 physical/special moves,) and with that I've now not only compared Lucario to Mew, but also Wobbuffet, who is still sitting in the uber tier at the moment as far as I know.
Anyway, time to wrap this up - completely discounting Lucario's fanboyish popularity levels, since I don't think they should have any say in whether he be restricted or not, I've changed my mind - Lucario probably would be better off being restricted, due to him having, in my opinion, the biggest and best non-uber movepool in the game and the stats to support said movepool with little trouble, which if used correctly grants Lucario the "turning the game on its head" ability that stuff like the Psuedo-legendaries/Skarm-Bliss are infamous for. So...since I was the only one against the restriction anyway, and I've thrown down my arms in defeat, I guess that makes the decision nice and easy...but then again, the decision is all yours.
Lucario @ Life Orb
Adamant
Inner Focus
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- ThunderPunch (Blaze Kick)
- Ice Punch (ExtremeSpeed)
Look familiar? It should do - I swiped the moveset from Electivire. As Jet has said on several occasions, this moveset has a super-effective attack against all single types except Ghost, Bug, Psychic and Fighting.
Here's my special one:
Lucario @ Life Orb
Modest
Inner Focus
- Aura Sphere
- Psychic
- Dark Pulse
- Dragon Pulse
Very good coverage there - lucky for us Lucario doesn't get Ice Beam/Thunderbolt, or we'd definitely be in trouble. As I said though, good coverage, and getting STAB on a special Fighting-type move will put off the usual Special walls in the game (Blissey and Regice mostly.)
Here's my mixed Lucario. The elemental punches are Platinum additions, whilst the other moves are what I have now:
Lucario @ Life Orb
Steadfast (should be Inner Focus, but bleh)
Hasty
- Aura Sphere
- Me First/ThunderPunch (Earthquake/Me First)
- Ice Punch (Stone Edge)
- Agility
This one I've been playing around with for ages, hence the amount of Move 1/Move 2 involved in the moveset. Basically, a Mixed Sweeper with a Me Firsty twist - all EV's are on Attack and Special Attack, with Agility to boost the Speed to deadly levels. Me First has yet to be tested extensively, although in theory it should work since no-one expects it to be there, and with Agility I will be able to outspeed the opponent to make good use of it. Me First appears twice since I may still use it when Platinum arrives, depending on the success I get with it.
And this will be my fourth once I get around to it:
Lucario @ Salac Berry
Inner Focus
Adamant
- Reversal
- Crunch
- Endure
- Swords Dance
Garchomp's not the only Pokemon specializing in pure damage output in these lands. Lucario is the only Pokemon in the game to get STAB'ed Reversal and Sandstorm immunity, making him the best Endure-Reversaller in the game.
This, basically, is the reason why we're here - this movepool diversity is the reason why Ruko suggested Lucario get slammed with restriction in the first place. I, at first, didn't consider Lucario to be as much of a threat as say, Snorlax, Suicune and the Pseudo-legendaries, which are easily some of the most dominant stand-alone Pokemon in the competitive game, and thus I was against his restriction. We've since discussed this in chat, however, and after taking into account Ruko's and Linkachu's points for resticting Lucario, I decided I'd do some tests to see how threatening I could make Lucario be, and I think the four movesets above speak for themselves - alone, they may seem fairly standard, but the thing that makes my Lucario so dangerous is that you have no idea which of these movesets I'm using against you, and for anyone who hasn't read this, they have no idea what moves I have at all, since using one move doesn't reveal any of the others, and guessing the moveset wrongly can at best, lose the opponent one Pokemon, or at worst, get the opponent's whole team wasted in seconds. In a way, Lucario almost has the infamous Wobbuffet trait of almost always being able to kill at least one Pokemon before going down - if you try to wall Lucario and guess the moveset type wrong, the would-be wall is toast (e.g. Blissey tries to wall Lucario and gets OHKO'd by Close Combat.) If Wobs comes in against the right Pokemon, that Pokemon is doomed (pops up against someone with all 4 physical/special moves,) and with that I've now not only compared Lucario to Mew, but also Wobbuffet, who is still sitting in the uber tier at the moment as far as I know.
Anyway, time to wrap this up - completely discounting Lucario's fanboyish popularity levels, since I don't think they should have any say in whether he be restricted or not, I've changed my mind - Lucario probably would be better off being restricted, due to him having, in my opinion, the biggest and best non-uber movepool in the game and the stats to support said movepool with little trouble, which if used correctly grants Lucario the "turning the game on its head" ability that stuff like the Psuedo-legendaries/Skarm-Bliss are infamous for. So...since I was the only one against the restriction anyway, and I've thrown down my arms in defeat, I guess that makes the decision nice and easy...but then again, the decision is all yours.
As something I just dug up. Lucario can hit for 14 out of 17 types with this move set:
Lucario@Whatever, it's not important
Nature: Not important for that either
Ability: Getting the drift yet? Not important
EVs: You must have gotten it by now, not important
-Close Combat/Aura Sphere/Any other Fighting attack it learns
-Ice Punch/HP Ice
-Shadow Claw/Shadow Ball/Dark Pulse/Crunch
-Bone Rush/Dig/Earthquake
Those four types of moves give Lucario 14 out of 17 Super Effective hits. This trumps Electirvire's 13 of 17 which Lucario can duplicate.
If anything, this gives it a huge edge with it being able to Abuse the Expert Belt. Or the Life Orb whatever. Of all Pokemon, it gets a lot of coverage from four attacks.
Another reason to restrict him, amIright?
Edit: Forgot that Dark gets the same coverage. Add Dark Pulse and Crunch to the list.
Lucario@Whatever, it's not important
Nature: Not important for that either
Ability: Getting the drift yet? Not important
EVs: You must have gotten it by now, not important
-Close Combat/Aura Sphere/Any other Fighting attack it learns
-Ice Punch/HP Ice
-Shadow Claw/Shadow Ball/Dark Pulse/Crunch
-Bone Rush/Dig/Earthquake
Those four types of moves give Lucario 14 out of 17 Super Effective hits. This trumps Electirvire's 13 of 17 which Lucario can duplicate.
If anything, this gives it a huge edge with it being able to Abuse the Expert Belt. Or the Life Orb whatever. Of all Pokemon, it gets a lot of coverage from four attacks.
Another reason to restrict him, amIright?
Edit: Forgot that Dark gets the same coverage. Add Dark Pulse and Crunch to the list.
when you say species do you mean type or species as in cleffa=star shape pokemon and staryu=star shape pokemon?
Ruko
Bearded Trout Warrior
It also means evolutions, as was pointed out in this thread at least once before.
No more than one Eeveelution. If you have Umbreon, no Espeon for your team
No Shedinja + Ninjask
No Scizor + Scyther
No Gorebyss + Huntail
No Gallade + Gardevoir
No Glalie + Froslass
No Slowbro + Slowking
No Hitmonchan + Hitmonlee + Hitmontop
No Dustox + Beautifly
No Vileplum + Bellossom
No Poliwrath + Politoed
I think that's all of them..
An easy way around the rule, [since I know quite a few people don't like the blocked evolutions] simply ask your opponent if they mind. To the best of my knowledge, most people won't unless you have an ever original team with nothing but Eeveelutions.
No more than one Eeveelution. If you have Umbreon, no Espeon for your team
No Shedinja + Ninjask
No Scizor + Scyther
No Gorebyss + Huntail
No Gallade + Gardevoir
No Glalie + Froslass
No Slowbro + Slowking
No Hitmonchan + Hitmonlee + Hitmontop
No Dustox + Beautifly
No Vileplum + Bellossom
No Poliwrath + Politoed
I think that's all of them..
An easy way around the rule, [since I know quite a few people don't like the blocked evolutions] simply ask your opponent if they mind. To the best of my knowledge, most people won't unless you have an ever original team with nothing but Eeveelutions.
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