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Sylveon's Type: The Plot Thickens!
- Thread starter Linkachu
- Start date
To reiterate my previous statements about Sylveon's type:
At the end of the day, far, far too much attention has been placed on the absence of a type for Sylveon now that it seems almost impossible that it isn't completely new. They're even teasing its strengths and weaknesses (and in the process, teaching them to us).
There still stands one explanation for it not being a new type, and that is that a multi-type Eeveeultion is still a brand new thing and could feasibly be 'tease-worthy' (though only to the same sadistic bastards that felt announcing a Mewtwo Forme as a whole new Pokemon was the same). However, we've had plenty of imagery of Sylveon's absent type and it's been pretty thoroughly implied to only be a single type. Even the image at the top of this post carries a placeholder for only one type, and it's not the only image of its kind that has followed Sylveon since day one.
Maybe Masuda really is going to announce something game changing next weekend. I'd say the evidence towards at least one whole new type for the game is piling up, and fewer and fewer of the other theories make any sense. Spelling out that it has strengths and weaknesses that no other single-typed Pokemon possibly could at this point can only be a deliberate measure in preparation of finally spilling the beans.
Re: The Sylveon image at the end.
So, people have been speculating that the frame around Sylveon hints towards it being a flying type because of the 'wing' like shape at the bottom.
However:
It's not the only instance of similar shapes being used in typings other than flying.
But, more to the point, it's actually very much a 1:1 representation of Sylveon's ears, rather than a 'wing', and the shape of the bubble as a whole is also the same shape as the blue 'inner' part of its ear.
In all, despite every other Eeveelution sporting something that quite closely represents their type (though Espeon and Umbreon seem quite abstract, also), it seems that either Sylveon's type is still deliberately being suppressed through similar imagery, or lends more (or as much as) to the suggestion that it is a new Sound type or Bug type as it does to it being a Flying type.
I can buy the idea of it being a bug type. It would explain the eyes, the beautifly-like Milotic colour palette and the random butterfly 'bows'. It certainly seems to be more likely than flying type.
That said, when every other Eeveelution's 'bubble' is hardcore focussed on their specific type - and Sylveon's comes packing with a representation of the shape of its ears, I can also buy the reasoning for a 'Sound' type too.
I think they're deliberately trolling us along, though, so I'm not putting much stock in anything until they come out and say one way or another, really.
Edit:
Also, just to play devil's advocate on the sound type idea even further:
Sylveon's singing producing this effect could also be a representation of a move or ability related to Sound to Colour Synesthesia.
At the end of the day, far, far too much attention has been placed on the absence of a type for Sylveon now that it seems almost impossible that it isn't completely new. They're even teasing its strengths and weaknesses (and in the process, teaching them to us).
There still stands one explanation for it not being a new type, and that is that a multi-type Eeveeultion is still a brand new thing and could feasibly be 'tease-worthy' (though only to the same sadistic bastards that felt announcing a Mewtwo Forme as a whole new Pokemon was the same). However, we've had plenty of imagery of Sylveon's absent type and it's been pretty thoroughly implied to only be a single type. Even the image at the top of this post carries a placeholder for only one type, and it's not the only image of its kind that has followed Sylveon since day one.
Maybe Masuda really is going to announce something game changing next weekend. I'd say the evidence towards at least one whole new type for the game is piling up, and fewer and fewer of the other theories make any sense. Spelling out that it has strengths and weaknesses that no other single-typed Pokemon possibly could at this point can only be a deliberate measure in preparation of finally spilling the beans.
They've teased it out so much that I don't think it's unreasonable to expect it to be something remarkable (i.e. new type) but I sort of want to hold back so I won't be disappointed when the reveal does come.
Overall I think Light (Fairy) or Sound have good cases for inclusion (maybe both?) and a number of candidate Normal-types that could have their types changed (Clefairy, Chansey, etc.) (Exploud, Meloetta, Chatot, etc.).
Overall I think Light (Fairy) or Sound have good cases for inclusion (maybe both?) and a number of candidate Normal-types that could have their types changed (Clefairy, Chansey, etc.) (Exploud, Meloetta, Chatot, etc.).
Keleri said:
As good an excuse as any to dig this up from the depths of the Internet:
Note that while I give this list no more credence than pure speculation, I'd agree with their reasoning in most cases. Except I'd say Sylveon would be on the other side of that line, if anything.
I don't know how I feel about a new type. The thing that bothers me most is the idea of older Pokemon having their types changed. I bet that most Fairy types would be cute and likeable though so I'd probably get over it. I do like the idea of Sylveon being the first dual type Eeveelution though. It wouldn't be surprising for them to over hype something and cause all this speculation about new types and then really it's just a dual type.
I still find the notion of some of these types absolutely ridiculous. Even though Pokemon has never made the most sense on certain things, I believe that some of these suggested types are just a whole new world of weird.
Starting with Sound, how would that even work? How could sound manifest as a force great enough to do anything? Yes, sound at enough pitch can shatter eardrums and glass, but what would damage it in return? You can't exactly stop sound from travelling unless there's a vacuum, so...a Space type? Um, no. In this scenario, Sound would have to be the ultimate neutral type: can damage everything, and is damaged by everything. No super-effective hits, no resistances, no immunities. And, most likely, largely relegated to a utility role rather than a damage-centric one, in terms of moves.
And "being similar to Water, Fire, and Lightning"? I know it's not outright stated in the games or the anime, but Water-types don't just carry water around with them, their bodies have some mechanism that's able to convert hydrogen and oxygen from the air into water, and then pressurize it into a burst. Fire attacks are, as are a common tradition with dragons irl, have special glands that can ignite a spark, that with enough of an exhale, can send the spark out to ignite the oxygen. The Pokedex entries of most Electric-types involve the gathering of storm clouds, which suggests that the Pokemon themselves act to charge the ions/electrons around them while the stormclouds gather, and then turn themselves into a lightning rod of sorts. Being elemental creatures the power of which is unknown to man, they are able to direct this lightning through force of will. Another means would be a static discharge.
It's not 100% real world logic, but it's also a fantasy game; however, it is a rather grounded fantasy game. Pokemon are stated to be creatures that are beyond what we know creatures to be on Earth, with some being outright called deities.
In regards to Alex's picture about Light/Sound and the definitions thereof, wouldn't that essentially make all Electric-types Light? It only stands to reason that any and all Electric-types are able to give off light in some form or fashion, even if it's just a glow from being "charged".
And then there's the metagame to consider. While this has been brought up several times in similar topics, Dark and Steel exist almost solely to stop the unholy rampage that was Psychic and Dragon, respectively. They also weren't brought about to retrofit old Pokemon, as there are no Dark-types in Gen I, and the only two Steel-types are /magnets/. Bite was a Normal-type move to start, and that hardly seems like a Dark-type move. It was shifted so that Dark actually had some moves. Gust was also a Normal move, and was retrofitted to Flying because it made more sense. You can argue that with Dark moves mainly being dirty tactics that Bite would fit in there, and it kinda is, but with most Pokemon being animals, biting is a natural form of defense and offense, so it would technically make more sense as a Normal type move since it would be so commonplace. Although, I can see that from the perspective of GameFreak not wanting to provoke PETA, that Bite would be shifted to avoid "dogfighting"(even though a ton of Pokemon still learn it anyway >>).
So that brings us to the latest victim of internet fanboyism: Fairy-type. One word: Navi. Welcome to our new mascot. In all seriousness, we have several pixie-like, or "fairy-like" Pokemon, namely legendaries, most of which are Normal-type or Psychic-type. This is because they have special powers related to the metaphysical. Let's take a look at Celebi. It's Grass/Psychic. Now if we change that to Grass/Fairy or Psychic/Fairy, both times it seems almost redundant.
While the same could be said for Rock/Ground, let it be known that while birds will not suffer to an earthquake, we do have the phrase "two birds with one STONE". What this basically means is that Ground moves deal with things on the ground, while Rock moves deal with things off of the ground. So while similar, they are different. But what about Water and Ice, you ask? Well, you can't exactly karate chop water and it do much, can you? But breaking ice is a common feat of strength. But why is Ice the only non-Dragon type to be Super-effective against Dragon? Dragons are typically reptiles or close to them, no? And what are reptiles? Cold-blooded. Heat they can withstand because they can naturally produce it and they need it. Cold temperatures would severely mess with their internal structures by making them lethargic and unable to do much to fight back against it. That's why most Dragon Pokemon are FOUR TIMES WEAK to Ice. They are so crippled by it that it doesn't even matter.
In terms of what a new type would do to the metagame, let's look at this: Poison is only strong against one type. And yet, Toxic and Toxic Spikes two very widely used moves in the metagame. This is because they offer great utility, and yet can easily be stopped with a commonplace Steel-type or another Poison-type. The metagame is essentially balanced as-is. If you have good team synergy, you'll probably win, regardless of if you're using a weather team, gimmick team(see: Tailwind, Gravity, Trick Room), or just a typical type-balanced team.
What I'm trying to get at is this: a new type would just upset the balance. There is no overpowered type because there are so many dual-type combinations now that just about every Pokemon has at least two or three hard counters, and most Pokemon have a decent enough range of usable attack types to get at worst, neutral coverage on everything, with a good number of Pokemon getting better than that.
And if Nintendo is going to call a Mewtwo Forme a "new Pokemon", then it's quite possible that they are making Sylveon's type secret just to have us hyped up so we'll buy the games. Additionally, with it being an international release, they'd obviously want to tell us as little as possible so that we can be genuinely surprised(and buy the game). I'm not saying they're in it just for the money, but they know that this level of secrecy is going to make us buy it so we can find out. Everyone and their mother has wanted a new Eeveelution: well, we got one. If you're happy with it, fine; if you're not, also fine. A lot of people were angry about Emboar being Fire/Fighting, and that's with existing types. How easily could a new type receive such a reaction? Very. It has to be executed nearly flawlessly, so it's either really carefully planned out, or it doesn't exist.
Starting with Sound, how would that even work? How could sound manifest as a force great enough to do anything? Yes, sound at enough pitch can shatter eardrums and glass, but what would damage it in return? You can't exactly stop sound from travelling unless there's a vacuum, so...a Space type? Um, no. In this scenario, Sound would have to be the ultimate neutral type: can damage everything, and is damaged by everything. No super-effective hits, no resistances, no immunities. And, most likely, largely relegated to a utility role rather than a damage-centric one, in terms of moves.
And "being similar to Water, Fire, and Lightning"? I know it's not outright stated in the games or the anime, but Water-types don't just carry water around with them, their bodies have some mechanism that's able to convert hydrogen and oxygen from the air into water, and then pressurize it into a burst. Fire attacks are, as are a common tradition with dragons irl, have special glands that can ignite a spark, that with enough of an exhale, can send the spark out to ignite the oxygen. The Pokedex entries of most Electric-types involve the gathering of storm clouds, which suggests that the Pokemon themselves act to charge the ions/electrons around them while the stormclouds gather, and then turn themselves into a lightning rod of sorts. Being elemental creatures the power of which is unknown to man, they are able to direct this lightning through force of will. Another means would be a static discharge.
It's not 100% real world logic, but it's also a fantasy game; however, it is a rather grounded fantasy game. Pokemon are stated to be creatures that are beyond what we know creatures to be on Earth, with some being outright called deities.
In regards to Alex's picture about Light/Sound and the definitions thereof, wouldn't that essentially make all Electric-types Light? It only stands to reason that any and all Electric-types are able to give off light in some form or fashion, even if it's just a glow from being "charged".
And then there's the metagame to consider. While this has been brought up several times in similar topics, Dark and Steel exist almost solely to stop the unholy rampage that was Psychic and Dragon, respectively. They also weren't brought about to retrofit old Pokemon, as there are no Dark-types in Gen I, and the only two Steel-types are /magnets/. Bite was a Normal-type move to start, and that hardly seems like a Dark-type move. It was shifted so that Dark actually had some moves. Gust was also a Normal move, and was retrofitted to Flying because it made more sense. You can argue that with Dark moves mainly being dirty tactics that Bite would fit in there, and it kinda is, but with most Pokemon being animals, biting is a natural form of defense and offense, so it would technically make more sense as a Normal type move since it would be so commonplace. Although, I can see that from the perspective of GameFreak not wanting to provoke PETA, that Bite would be shifted to avoid "dogfighting"(even though a ton of Pokemon still learn it anyway >>).
So that brings us to the latest victim of internet fanboyism: Fairy-type. One word: Navi. Welcome to our new mascot. In all seriousness, we have several pixie-like, or "fairy-like" Pokemon, namely legendaries, most of which are Normal-type or Psychic-type. This is because they have special powers related to the metaphysical. Let's take a look at Celebi. It's Grass/Psychic. Now if we change that to Grass/Fairy or Psychic/Fairy, both times it seems almost redundant.
While the same could be said for Rock/Ground, let it be known that while birds will not suffer to an earthquake, we do have the phrase "two birds with one STONE". What this basically means is that Ground moves deal with things on the ground, while Rock moves deal with things off of the ground. So while similar, they are different. But what about Water and Ice, you ask? Well, you can't exactly karate chop water and it do much, can you? But breaking ice is a common feat of strength. But why is Ice the only non-Dragon type to be Super-effective against Dragon? Dragons are typically reptiles or close to them, no? And what are reptiles? Cold-blooded. Heat they can withstand because they can naturally produce it and they need it. Cold temperatures would severely mess with their internal structures by making them lethargic and unable to do much to fight back against it. That's why most Dragon Pokemon are FOUR TIMES WEAK to Ice. They are so crippled by it that it doesn't even matter.
In terms of what a new type would do to the metagame, let's look at this: Poison is only strong against one type. And yet, Toxic and Toxic Spikes two very widely used moves in the metagame. This is because they offer great utility, and yet can easily be stopped with a commonplace Steel-type or another Poison-type. The metagame is essentially balanced as-is. If you have good team synergy, you'll probably win, regardless of if you're using a weather team, gimmick team(see: Tailwind, Gravity, Trick Room), or just a typical type-balanced team.
What I'm trying to get at is this: a new type would just upset the balance. There is no overpowered type because there are so many dual-type combinations now that just about every Pokemon has at least two or three hard counters, and most Pokemon have a decent enough range of usable attack types to get at worst, neutral coverage on everything, with a good number of Pokemon getting better than that.
And if Nintendo is going to call a Mewtwo Forme a "new Pokemon", then it's quite possible that they are making Sylveon's type secret just to have us hyped up so we'll buy the games. Additionally, with it being an international release, they'd obviously want to tell us as little as possible so that we can be genuinely surprised(and buy the game). I'm not saying they're in it just for the money, but they know that this level of secrecy is going to make us buy it so we can find out. Everyone and their mother has wanted a new Eeveelution: well, we got one. If you're happy with it, fine; if you're not, also fine. A lot of people were angry about Emboar being Fire/Fighting, and that's with existing types. How easily could a new type receive such a reaction? Very. It has to be executed nearly flawlessly, so it's either really carefully planned out, or it doesn't exist.
The concept of 'fairy' is quite different to psychic. Psychic represents the power of the mind and the supernatural. Fairy represents purity, energy and magic.Shocari said:
A new type isn't necessarily about balancing, it's about change and new strategies, just as new abilities, moves and Pokémon are. Also, while there are certainly counters to everything, I wouldn't exactly call the type system balanced. Dragon and Steel dominate the metagame, whereas other types such as Ice seem to be at a distinct disadvantage.Shocari said:
Eeveelutions are designed to represent a particular type, and that type is immediately noticeable from their name and appearance. Isn't it a bit off that we're getting only one eeveelution and we still don't know its type? Game Freak have over a decade of experience balancing Pokémon games, so I don't see how many could be angry at a new type (aside from subjective opinion). I'd expect most people to be excited for the first new type in nearly 15 years.Shocari said:
Shocari said:
I gotta to say, considering how long they've teased out Sylveon, Alex and Keleri's rationale for believing that we are receiving a new type (if not multiple) is more reasonable at this point than the possibility that we're not. As much as I worry about metagame balance, I'd brace yourself for it happening. All signs really are pointing that way.
I agree with the general notion now that is more than likely a new typing but I'm not going to deny the Flying/Bug (possibly Dragon) hypothesis or the dual type hypothesis.
My problem with adding a type is some dual types perfectly fit both their types and some of the suggested types for example Lunatone and Solrock represent Rock and Psychic well but they would also fit a Space type well and as we've seen previously Psychic seems to cover Cosmic energy.
The fairy typing seems like a reasonable idea and would relate to the Japanese name Ninfia - Nymph but again the fairy type seems to be an amalgamation of Psychic and Grass.
The light type probably the most argued type ever since Dark came about which again looks to be another amalgamation but this time of Electric and Psychic.
Leading onto the last of the commonly thought types Sound while Sho has a point with Sounds effectiveness Sound could have strengths and weaknesses. For strengths I was thinking Flying type with sound waves knocking them off course, Steel it could cause a ringing through the metal and I think it could be its own weakness like Dragon or Ghost.
As for weaknesses I'd say Ground as it could muffle the sound and it travels through much quicker so it doesn't affect it as much, Electric could possibly counteract the Sound maybe by amplifying so much the source of sound overloads (this of course could be a two way relationship and could make it strong to Electric as well) and the final type is Grass from what I've noticed in Nintendo music and nature tend to go hand and when thinking about nature usually forests or grassy plains and flowers come to mind so sound could possibly strengthen Grass type and enfuse it with the power of Sound, there is also be multiple studies into the affect of music, talking and sound in general on a plants growth and if my memory serves correctly sound overall seems to have a positive effect on the growth of plants.
My problem with adding a type is some dual types perfectly fit both their types and some of the suggested types for example Lunatone and Solrock represent Rock and Psychic well but they would also fit a Space type well and as we've seen previously Psychic seems to cover Cosmic energy.
The fairy typing seems like a reasonable idea and would relate to the Japanese name Ninfia - Nymph but again the fairy type seems to be an amalgamation of Psychic and Grass.
The light type probably the most argued type ever since Dark came about which again looks to be another amalgamation but this time of Electric and Psychic.
Leading onto the last of the commonly thought types Sound while Sho has a point with Sounds effectiveness Sound could have strengths and weaknesses. For strengths I was thinking Flying type with sound waves knocking them off course, Steel it could cause a ringing through the metal and I think it could be its own weakness like Dragon or Ghost.
As for weaknesses I'd say Ground as it could muffle the sound and it travels through much quicker so it doesn't affect it as much, Electric could possibly counteract the Sound maybe by amplifying so much the source of sound overloads (this of course could be a two way relationship and could make it strong to Electric as well) and the final type is Grass from what I've noticed in Nintendo music and nature tend to go hand and when thinking about nature usually forests or grassy plains and flowers come to mind so sound could possibly strengthen Grass type and enfuse it with the power of Sound, there is also be multiple studies into the affect of music, talking and sound in general on a plants growth and if my memory serves correctly sound overall seems to have a positive effect on the growth of plants.
Actually, I think fairy makes sense. I mean lots of pokemon would be re-typed, such as: Clefairy, Clefable, Cleffa, Igglybuff, Jigglypuff, Wigglytuff, Audino, Chansey and Blissey as fairy types, Snubbull and Granbull as Normal/Fairy types, Plusle and Minule as Electric/Fairy and ( I dont agree but...) Mew as and Mewtwo Awakened forme as Psychic/Fairy, Mewtwo will stay a pure psychic type but its forme will change...?
I'd say given the amount of sound-based mechanics already in the game, and the circumstantial evidence in my first post about Sylveon's few hints towards being related to sound, it's the most likely theory. It's also feasible it'll be the only type introduced, but it'd be nice if there were at least two.
Not sure I buy much into the specific idea of a Fairy type, though.
That could easily also mean that it is a gender specific Eeveelution and another one could be released along side it, and not being shown because it is probably not going to be a new type. If I am right I am willing to bet the other being Dragon due to the "leak" of Fairy type saying it is Dragon-Proof and so far all the Eeveelutions have been types that were special attacks before Gen 4. Plus Fairies are considered girly and Dragons are considered manly in most cases.snivy811 said:
Wow, am I late to this batch of news. I seriously don't think that they would break the long held tradition of single Eeveelution typing, so that really leaves us with just one option: a new type. Not only this, but its weakness to rock and poison types would add more balance to the game, methinks anyway. Okay, so maybe Rock types might have a better edge, but Poison types definitely need this; they are only super effective against Grass at this point, after all, and have way too many weaknesses to be considered fair, so this is really a good thing to bring Poison types up to par with other types, and maybe with X and Y, bring about some badass Poison types to make use of this bringing up to par that many poisons were lacking, with exceptions of course (not to say that they aren't great for inflicting status conditions, but you understand what I'm saying.)
That's just my thinking about it though, and I'm probably wrong on so many levels. Either way, we gots a new type
That's just my thinking about it though, and I'm probably wrong on so many levels. Either way, we gots a new type