DPPt/HGSS Vaporeon dilemma

[GodlessM]

So this the Vaporeon for my Eeveelution team:

Vaporeon - Bold @ Leftovers/Shell Ball
252D/126SpD/132HP
Surf
Ice Beam/H.P.Dragon
Aqua Ring
Acid Armour

So question is, do I go for Ice Beam to have more supper effectiveness, or H.P.Dragon to be able to switch into water types to restore HP while still being able to hit them hard enough to stand a chance (or not get walled by other Vaporeon)????

 

[Moose]

I would go for Ice Beam, considering the fact that you already have a restore ability as a held item.

 

[KoL]

Generally, HP Electric is considered the optimum Hidden Power for tackling enemy Water-types with Vaporeon. Other options include Shadow Ball and Signal Beam, for slightly more unpredictability.

As a note, 252 EVs in Defense and a Bold Nature + Acid Armour is severe overkill, especially when Vaporeon can take most physical hits and survive quite comfortably without any EVs in Defense whatsoever.

 

[GodlessM]

Generally, HP Electric is considered the optimum Hidden Power for tackling enemy Water-types with Vaporeon. Other options include Shadow Ball and Signal Beam, for slightly more unpredictability.

As a note, 252 EVs in Defense and a Bold Nature + Acid Armour is severe overkill, especially when Vaporeon can take most physical hits and survive quite comfortably without any EVs in Defense whatsoever.

Well the EV's are already done and he is kicking ass with a temporary set, and I was thinking of removing Acid Armour as I hardly use it. I asked about HP.Dragon because that happens to be what its HP is.

[quote author=Moosechu link=topic=6295.msg106480#msg106480 date=1244741934]
I would go for Ice Beam, considering the fact that you already have a restore ability as a held item.
[/quote]

What on earth are you talking about?!?

 

[KoL]

Hm, HP Dragon can work, plus it would give Kingdra quite a surprise for sure, and Kingdra are pretty common nowadays. Empoleon will be able to wall you, but I can tell you from experience that Empoleon can do very little back to Vaporeon unless it has Swords Dance and a physical move that can hit for neutral on Vaporeon, so Vaporeon vs Empoleon will be very slow as opposed to being severely in Empy's favour (plus Empoleon is about as anti-Water as it gets anyway.) I don't think anything else walls both of those moves, although it's worth noting that your Hidden Power will be quite lacking in damage against anything that isn't a Dragon.

 

[GodlessM]

Hm, HP Dragon can work, plus it would give Kingdra quite a surprise for sure, and Kingdra are pretty common nowadays. Empoleon will be able to wall you, but I can tell you from experience that Empoleon can do very little back to Vaporeon unless it has Swords Dance and a physical move that can hit for neutral on Vaporeon, so Vaporeon vs Empoleon will be very slow as opposed to being severely in Empy's favour (plus Empoleon is about as anti-Water as it gets anyway.) I don't think anything else walls both of those moves, although it's worth noting that your Hidden Power will be quite lacking in damage against anything that isn't a Dragon.

Yea I know, though it's only really there to have something to take on water Pokemon with. I should mention too that my Vaporeon has high enough SpA EV's too; I think his SpA is somewhere around 238, so he's no megaman, but he's not a pushover either.

 

[KoL]

Overall, the best option for clearing out Water Pokemon besides HP Electric/Grass is Toxic - the only Water Pokemon that will be unaffected by it are Tentacruel and Empoleon, and Empoleon already struggles to do a whole lot to any Vaporeon packing a healing move. Tentacruel will be a bit more of a risk, but otherwise Toxic makes for an effective way to not only stop Water-types with Vaporeon, but also anything that packs pretty beefy HP/Sp.Defense.

 

[GodlessM]

Overall, the best option for clearing out Water Pokemon besides HP Electric/Grass is Toxic - the only Water Pokemon that will be unaffected by it are Tentacruel and Empoleon, and Empoleon already struggles to do a whole lot to any Vaporeon packing a healing move. Tentacruel will be a bit more of a risk, but otherwise Toxic makes for an effective way to not only stop Water-types with Vaporeon, but also anything that packs pretty beefy HP/Sp.Defense.

I'm going to try out HP.Dragon but will consider this as back up. Tentacruel was on my mind when considering the HP see, and I face him a lot it seems.

 

[Frost001]

You should keep ice beam and get rid of acid armor, the move is pretty much useless and you should keep the strong attacks. And also just a suggestion you should switch shell bell with leftovers. The combination of leftovers and aqua ring is what makes my Milotic unbeatable.

 

[GodlessM]

You should keep ice beam and get rid of acid armor, the move is pretty much useless and you should keep the strong attacks. And also just a suggestion you should switch shell bell with leftovers. The combination of leftovers and aqua ring is what makes my Milotic unbeatable.

I know I use it on Milotic too but Vaporeon can't take Leftovers 'cause the Umbreon on the team already has them.

 

[Frost001]

Oh, ok now I understand, well good choice then with the shell bell but I still say keep ice beam.

 

[KoL]

Just as a reference, here's my Vaporeon:

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Calm
252 SP.DEF/252 HP/6 SP.ATK

- Surf
- Toxic
- Wish
- Protect

Standard Wish-passer with Toxic as an added twist - Wish + Protect + Toxic is pretty brutal against anything that can't stop its constantly increasing damage. Surf with STAB combined with Base 110 Sp.Attack is surprisingly hard-hitting, and can 2HKO the more fragile sweepers with ease and tends to 3HKO any others that don't resist it. Wish + Protect allows for the same healing efficiency as Recover would grant (except with two moveslots) and also allows Vaporeon to heal other team members. The EV spread and the Nature are the odd part with this - although there's nothing on Defense, Vaporeon's massive HP prevents it from being OHKO'd by pretty much all unboosted Physical attacks, although you can edit the EVs/Nature depending on what suits the rest of your team best.

Finally, keep in mind that here specifically and possibly elsewhere also, using both Vaporeon and Umbreon breaks Species Clause since they both evolve from the same Pokemon - Eevee.

 

[GodlessM]

Just as a reference, here's my Vaporeon:

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Calm
252 SP.DEF/252 HP/6 SP.ATK

- Surf
- Toxic
- Wish
- Protect

Standard Wish-passer with Toxic as an added twist - Wish + Protect + Toxic is pretty brutal against anything that can't stop its constantly increasing damage. Surf with STAB combined with Base 110 Sp.Attack is surprisingly hard-hitting, and can 2HKO the more fragile sweepers with ease and tends to 3HKO any others that don't resist it. Wish + Protect allows for the same healing efficiency as Recover would grant (except with two moveslots) and also allows Vaporeon to heal other team members. The EV spread and the Nature are the odd part with this - although there's nothing on Defense, Vaporeon's massive HP prevents it from being OHKO'd by pretty much all unboosted Physical attacks, although you can edit the EVs/Nature depending on what suits the rest of your team best.

Finally, keep in mind that here specifically and possibly elsewhere also, using both Vaporeon and Umbreon breaks Species Clause since they both evolve from the same Pokemon - Eevee.

I thought the species clause was only two of the same Pokemon??? Anyway, if anyone forces that rule I can't face them with Vaporeon because as I said in the OP it's an Eeveelution team; Vaporeon, Jolteon, Flareon, Umbreon, Leafeon, and Glaceon.

 

[KoL]

It was news to me the first time I heard it, although it does also cover things such as Hitmonlee/Hitmonchan/Hitmontop as well since they evolve from Tyrogue, as well as Froslass and Glalie since they both evolve from Snorunt. My belief is that it is a somewhat flexible part of the clause, although it wouldn't surprise me if it were implemented purely to prevent all-Eeveelution teams (which aren't exactly the most original concept in the world, lets face it.)