Who should of been in brawl

kinu · Jun 11, 2008

Okay well i hope there has not been any of these and that this is in the right section.
Well its like this take the top 5 charecters that you want out fo brawl and replace them for the top 5 charecters you want in brawl. For example i will do mine. You can only add a 3rd party if you took out a 3rd party

Take-out
1. Diddy
2. R.O.B.
3. Sonic
4. Toon Link
5. Lucario

Put-In-
1. Roy :{
2. Bowser Jr, Kuppa kid, what ever you would like to call him
3. Geno
4. Ridly { He could still be a boss and all}
5. I would of wanted either Mewtwo back in or Blazakin {Blazakin woud be a caption falcon clone though so prefebably Mewtwo}

And thats it, you can explain why you want soemone in or why you want someone out.

Jeydis · Jun 11, 2008

I would of wanted either Mewtwo back in or Blazakin {Blazakin woud be a caption falcon clone though so prefebably Mewtwo}

Its spelled Blaziken not Blazakin.

Id like to see toon link out and Dixie Kong in, she rocked in the Dk games

kinu · Jun 11, 2008

for people who hacked into the game or whatever i'll find the link later and post it if you want it but they said that they worked on Dixie Kong, but obviously did not have her in, they also hade like Toon Zelda and sheik.

Pheonix · Jun 11, 2008

Wow... this takes a little bit of thought. The one thing I don't like is the fact that there are too many clones in that game as is.

Take-out
1. Wolf (seriously, do we really need 3 characters with the EXACT same moveset?)
2. Jigglypuff (this was the only character I was truly disappointed to learn was a secret unlock)
3. Zero Suit Samus (never really liked this idea, if it was more of an easier switch between the two I would be all for it)
4. Marth (always did like Roy over Marth in Melee)

Put-in
1. Mewtwo (they really should have brought this one back, although Lucario is very similar in moveset)
2. Roy (explosion sword, 'nuff said)

Plapti · Jun 11, 2008

For your information the fact that Wolf, Falco and Fox have the same moves is a huge no. They have similar Special Moves, but that's about it. I could rant on for hours about the differences in Wolf, Falco and Fox and their moves.

Also, for the record about those data bits, rumours had it that Roy, Toon versions of Zelda and Shiek, Dixie Kong, Dr. Mario among other characters had bits of random data that the makers were thinking about including those characters but were dropped due to lack of time or other conditions.

KoL · Jun 11, 2008

The amount of cyber-ink that this subject has created as of now is immense. Nintendo has caused a fair amount of controversy with their choices for the Brawl roster, although I think all of them are easily justified. Roy was removed because Marth was quicker, heavier and had more KO'ing power if you used him right, which made Marth a much better character. Mewtwo was removed because he sucked - lightweight, slow, big, and Confusion and Disable were near useless...Ness wasn't much better, but at least he was actually fun to play as. That said, the one character I think has caused the biggest uproar is Ridley. Tons of people wanted Ridley to be playable, and when it turned out that he wasn't, they went nuts. They all claim that Ridley could "just be scaled down" and then he'd be perfect. What they don't realise is that Ridley's already been scaled down for Brawl - Ridley is far bigger in the Metroid games compared to Samus than he is in Brawl.

The only suggestion I'd make for the roster is take out R.O.B. since he is basically a NES peripheral put in Brawl for no reason, and his moves are boring and unoriginal (yay, a robot that shoots lasers, that's new.) For his replacement, I'd choose Dark Samus. Now before anyone decides to scream "Samus Clone," Dark Samus has completely different moves to the original, such as her phazon barriers, phazon spray beam and Dark Echoes. Also, since she floats instead of walking, she'd be quite light compared to the original Samus, but she'd also be a lot quicker, and anyone who has played Metroid Prime 2 and/or 3 will tell you that Dark Samus is pretty damn quick.

Cinder · Jun 11, 2008

Jetters said:
For your information the fact that Wolf, Falco and Fox have the same moves is a huge no. They have similar Special Moves, but that's about it. I could rant on for hours about the differences in Wolf, Falco and Fox and their moves.

Thank you!! I was just about to say that...my God...how can people say that the Starfox reps have the exact same moves? Perhaps if people would play the game before making such assumptions, we wouldn't have this problem >.>...

And as for the topic, I'm one of the few people here (obviously) who thinks everyone deserves their spot...all I woulda wanted was to see Geno and Krystal make the cut...

Linkachu · Jun 11, 2008

kinu said:
... and that this is in the right section.

It wasn't. Any non-Pokemon video game related threads belong here, on the General Video Games Discussion. Misc Discussions is for topics that don't fit anywhere else, forum game threads, etc. Either way, this is certainly a video game-related thread ;p

Anyways, while I honestly have no issues with the Brawl roster at this point, Wolf and Toon Link really didn't need to be in there. Whether their attacks may work differently from Fox/Falco and Link to a degree, they're still undeniable clone-like characters. To me, Toon Link and Wolf feel like the "we ran out of time" characters. I guess the same can be said for Ganondorf, though, who'd been expected to receive a brand new play-set yet only received a unique FS, and let's not mention Falco... I'd assume that Falco only stayed in due to the fanbase (no offense Falco fans) >>;

In replace of Wolf and Toon Link, I would've put in Star Fox's Krystal and Wolf Link/Minda. I'm not going to theorize how Wolf Link and Minda would've played, but it could've been interesting to see. As for Krystal, she probably would have used her weapon from Star Fox Adventures, allowing her for a change to have a completely unique moveset from the other Star Fox charries.

Vol · Jun 11, 2008

I'm actually suprised that Krystal didn't make the cut. They were thinking about it, but they put Wolf in instead. Also, there was actually a discussion whether they'd put in Toon Link or Wolf Link and Midna. You know who made it, obviously.

Fox and Falco's attacks don't differ a whole lot. Yes, there are differences, but it's basically a clone. Wolf on the other hand has vastly different attacks than Fox or Falco. i. e. Neither of them have meteor smash capabilities, but Wolf does. Toon Link has fast speed, controllable boomerang, bigger bomb explosions, weaker arrows, inward sucking spin attack, and a great downward air attack. He has great differences.

I think Dr. Mario should've been in, but like an alternate costume, like the two Warios.

Roy doen't need to come back. They could just power up Marth's sword charge attack thing.

I don't have a problem with the Samus/Zero Suit Samus switching. It's actually easy to switch from Samus to Zero Suit, just hit up, down, up on the D-Pad really fast. It's not easy turning back though.

NO ONE TOUCH JIGGLYPUFF!!! She's one of my top three characters! >:E

We need more 3rd party characters.

Some characters that I would love in the next Smash Bros. are:
Krystal: Her staff attacks would fit perfectly in.
Paper Mario: Not a mario clone. He could have many original attacks.
Master Chief: Why not? Snake made it! He could use a lot of weapons like Snake does, but not a Snake clone.
Megaman: So many attacks to choose from! Plus, you'd know he would pwn.
Gandrayda: quick moves, electrical attacks, and a shapeshifting ability. Sounds like Smash Bros. material!
Blob: The character of old from a classic game, A Boy and his Blob! His jellybean eating abilities (sounds strange, but you know what I mean if you've played it) would be great attacks.
Jim Raynor: Highly doubting it, but if he made the cut, I would never stop playing!
Saki: Why'd they have to make him an assist trophy? D:
Geno: He would pwn. I've always liked Geno.
Boggy B: A worm from Worms, he would make use of that huge arsenal of weapons.

I have more characters, I might post them later.

Pheonix · Jun 11, 2008

Jetters said:
For your information the fact that Wolf, Falco and Fox have the same moves is a huge no. They have similar Special Moves, but that's about it. I could rant on for hours about the differences in Wolf, Falco and Fox and their moves.

Sorry, I got a little too excited about talking about clones I generalized a bit. The point I was trying to get across was the fact that there were two different clones of Fox, something we really didn't need even with Wolf's more unique spin on the same moveset. As a matter of fact, I would rather see the different moveset put on Falco instead, just to make him that much more different from Fox.

I can't believe I didn't remember Krystal, she should have been the shoe-in instead of Wolf.

[quote author=Vol link=topic=4506.msg63873#msg63873 date=1213194193]
We need more 3rd party characters.

Some characters that I would love in the next Smash Bros. are:
Krystal: Her staff attacks would fit perfectly in.
Paper Mario: Not a mario clone. He could have many original attacks.
Master Chief: Why not? Snake made it! He could use a lot of weapons like Snake does, but not a Snake clone.
Megaman: So many attacks to choose from! Plus, you'd know he would pwn.
Gandrayda: quick moves, electrical attacks, and a shapeshifting ability. Sounds like Smash Bros. material!
Blob: The character of old from a classic game, A Boy and his Blob! His jellybean eating abilities (sounds strange, but you know what I mean if you've played it) would be great attacks.
Jim Raynor: Highly doubting it, but if he made the cut, I would never stop playing!
Saki: Why'd they have to make him an assist trophy? D:
Geno: He would pwn. I've always liked Geno.
Boggy B: A worm from Worms, he would make use of that huge arsenal of weapons.
[/quote]

The only caveat to any 3rd party characters that will make it into the SSB series is that their game MUST have appeared on a Nintendo system. That being said, Megaman would probably be one of the best choices out of that list.

Vol · Jun 11, 2008

[quote author=tbphoenix]The only caveat to any 3rd party characters that will make it into the SSB series is that their game MUST have appeared on a Nintendo system. That being said, Megaman would probably be one of the best choices out of that list.
[/quote]

It all depends if fans demand it enough. I'm sure 3rd party companies would love to see their characters in a popular installation like SSB.

EDIT: Jim Raynor was in a game for the 64. >_>

typhlosionlover10 · Jun 11, 2008

Me.....I'd say I would like Espio(Sonic Heroes,Sonic Riders,Sonic Riders Zero Gravity)to join.If he had to replace a character I'd say Ice Climbers.THEY HAVEN'T HAD A GAME IN LIKE 20 YEARS,PEOPLE!!!

Vol · Jun 11, 2008

NEITHER HAS PIT, BUT EVERYONE LIKES HIM!!! They aren't going to replace Ice Climbers. It's just something about them attacking twice or using two items at the same time that makes them deadly.

Pheonix · Jun 11, 2008

Ice Climbers and Pit were both put in to please classic gamers. The days gone by when these WERE the cool games and a tribute to where all this gaming goodness came from. Same goes for Mr. Game and Watch, hell he is the one that STARTED it all.

Vol · Jun 11, 2008

Me personally, when I heard that Ice Climbers, Pit, and Mr. Game and Watch were coming to Smash Bros., I gasm'd.

Yoshimitsu · Jun 11, 2008

the "we ran out of time" characters.

No they fucking didn't >=O

kinu · Jun 11, 2008

Back on that Fox Falco and Wolf conversations, i dont mind that they put wolf in even though i would of perfered crystal, but the point is they could of worked harder on makeing the movesets more uniqe, i mean yes i see diffrences but they are very little.

Cinder · Jun 11, 2008

kinu said:
Back on that Fox Falco and Wolf conversations, i dont mind that they put wolf in even though i would of perfered crystal, but the point is they could of worked harder on makeing the movesets more uniqe, i mean yes i see diffrences but they are very little.

With Fox and Falco, yes, there are very few differences, but Wolf only has the specials...the rest is very unique...

[quote author=Vol link=topic=4506.msg63882#msg63882 date=1213198377]
It all depends if fans demand it enough. I'm sure 3rd party companies would love to see their characters in a popular installation like SSB.[/quote]

I do recall Sakurai saying something about it only being characters that appeared on Nintendo consoles...*shrugs*...and I dunno about all third parties wanting to be repped...I heard a rumor that Geno did make the cut, only for Square to change their mind and have him removed...*shrugs*...I hope it's false, but I dunno...

Plapti · Jun 12, 2008

How many times do I have to repeat myself. Fox and Falco are not clones. The only clone sets are the Special moves (All have different properties than each others), the Up and Down Smash, the Strong down and forward attacks, but both have different Power levels and reach (Falco's being slightly better), the Uair maybe the same, but Falco 'floats' a little when using it. All other moves are different. Falco has a different Base Combo, has way better air game than Fox and his fair attack is a barrel roll with forward momentum. Did I also mention the most notable change yet? The fact that Falco kicks his Reflector and you all still say that he's a clone. How narrowminded can you get? Accept the fact that Falco isn't a clone anymore. Does anyone else have anything to say that they're clones, or do I have to back up what I've said with me using my best character, Falco?

twinky · Jun 12, 2008

I say they should've put Shadow, before you bite my head off that he would be like Sonic, he has his own style, sure, he'll have the homing attack, but he could have the move chaos blast as a smash and the move he could have when he got the smash ball would be he turns into super shadow and do chaos spear instead of fly into people. I know the move would be overkill but it would be like super sonic raming into people, severly hits from chaos spear then they die.

Pheonix · Jun 12, 2008

Being a clone doesn't mean that you are the exact same down to every minute detail. A clone is just someone who has the same base move set or template where certain things are tweaked to make more unique than the mold they came from. All points you have made that show Falco is not Fox. But you cannot deny that pretty much ALL his moves are based on Fox's, as are Wolf's. Yes they are different, yes they have a more unique feel, but they are still considered clones all the same. Just like Mario and Luigi (though this has changed dramatically from Melee), just like Link and Toon Link, just like Captain Falcon and Ganondorf, just like Kirby and King Dedede (slightly lesser extent though). Hell there could even be an argument that Marth and Ike are clones even though they aren't.

Being a clone isn't necessarily a bad thing, we just want to see more than clones, we would love for all the characters to have a completely unique move set, instead of having the base template applied from someone else and then tweaked to fit the character better or make them stand out from the original.

@twinky: At least he is a trophy!

Plapti · Jun 12, 2008

Vol said:
Fox and Falco's attacks don't differ a whole lot. Yes, there are differences, but it's basically a clone. Wolf on the other hand has vastly different attacks than Fox or Falco. i. e. Neither of them have meteor smash capabilities, but Wolf does.

You need to learn a lesson. I'll give you a quick lesson in Falco's moves. Falco has two Meteor Smashes, His Dair Spike and the Falco Phantasm are both Meteor Smashes. You sir, need to learn Falco's moves.

To the next point. How much more originality do you need? Falco's best asset is Arwing piloting and you can't put that into a Brawl Game. Therefore, they have to base it on a character that has used physical moves before. Where are they going to get more moves? Remember, most of the moves they have have came from moves they've used in previous games. With some logic, Falco isn't a clone in Brawl. In Melee he was, but not in Brawl. You just never have used Falco to get my point.

Pheonix · Jun 12, 2008

I will concede that I don't play as Falco (or Fox or Wolf for that matter) in Brawl. Yes, he has a hell of a lot better move set this time around to differentiate him from Fox and Wolf. The ONLY point I am trying to make is that, by definition, he is a clone. It is true that they really don't have much to pull from to get different moves to make him totally unique and therefore pretty much HAVE to use the base template from Fox, but it still doesn't change the fact that he is a clone. Yes he has the Meteor Smashes, yes he is DIFFERENT than Fox, but he is still considered a CLONE!

Think of a clone being an actual replica of someone, but having a slightly different upbringing. This will change them from the original, give them some kind of uniqueness, a different demeanor, a changed fighting style, a different sense of self, but it doesn't change the fact that the base components are the same. The definition is still the same, a clone comes from the same template, the same building blocks, but can still be different from the original.

Vol · Jun 12, 2008

Fox, Falco, and Wolf are all clones of themselves. Yes, they have different Smash attacks, but their Specials are basically the same. Their Final Smashes are the same too. To be a clone, you have to have the same basic moveset.

Fox B Special: Fires a rapid laser that doesn't effect opponents, but hurts them.
Falco B Special: Fires a slower laser that flinches the opponents.
Wolf B Special: The gun hurts them when he pulls it out, way slower rate of fire, but more powerful of a beam.

They are all lasers, though.

Fox ^B Special: Dash in the air with fire.
Falco ^B Special: Dash in the air with fire a little farther and less gravity effect.
Wolf ^B Special: Dash in the air without fire.

They are all controllable dashes in the air.

Fox >B Special: Quick dash forward that hurts.
Falco >B Special: Quick dash forward that hurts.
Wolf >B Special: Quick dash forward and slightly upward that hurts.

All dashes that hurt.

Fox VB Special: Reflector that hurts when activated, also reflects. Can last forever.
Falco VB Special: Reflector that is kicked forward and lasts a short time. Also reflects.
Wolf VB Special: Reflector that slightly sucks opponents in when activated, can last forever. Also reflects.

All reflectors that reflect.

Their Smash attacks are indeed different.

If you say that they are clones still, then you are blind.

Plapti · Jun 12, 2008

Not clone, semi-clone. Falco was a clone in Melee, but not in Brawl. He's copied Specials, FS and a few standard moves, but mostly different. We'll end it there. Semi-clone. Anymore discussion of clones here and I'll freak. And I don't think anyone wants that to happen. And true clones have almost identical movesets, don't base in on four moves

As a side note, the only real clone in the game now is Toon Link. The rest are semi-clones. No complaints. My decision stands. And none of you can do anything about it.

Oh yes, just to really punish some people for the usage of clone:

Random Dictionary said:
A person or thing that duplicates, imitates, or closely resembles another in appearance, function, performance, or style.

T'is Falco closely resembling Fox...don't think so anymore.

Like I said, get back on topic or I will be issuing some bans. Now get back on topic!!

kinu · Jun 12, 2008

We'll I'm convised that there not exatc clones just simaler charcters with unique diffrences.

Another person who would of been awsome in brawl though would of been nice to see in it would of been Boo or king boo from the mario series, i know there movesets would be hard to come up with, but i am sure they would of thought of something.

Cinder · Jun 12, 2008

Jetters said:
Not clone, semi-clone. Falco was a clone in Melee, but not in Brawl. He's copied Specials, FS and a few standard moves, but mostly different. We'll end it there. Semi-clone. Anymore discussion of clones here and I'll freak. And I don't think anyone wants that to happen. And true clones have almost identical movesets, don't base in on four moves

I couldn't agree more...jus' sayin'...

Now, to be on topic:

[quote author=kinu link=topic=4506.msg63964#msg63964 date=1213232005]
We'll I'm convised that there not exatc clones just simaler charcters with unique diffrences.

Another person who would of been awsome in brawl though would of been nice to see in it would of been Boo or king boo from the mario series, i know there movesets would be hard to come up with, but i am sure they would of thought of something.
[/quote]

I'm gonna just come out and say it...Boo was a generic enemy, and had no important role outside of spin-offs...if spin-off characters meant anything to Sakurai, we'd have Waluigi, Toad, Birdo, Boo...countless characters...all of the characters chosen were essential to their series in some way, shape, or form...ROB's debatable, but every other character definately deserves their spot...

Vol · Jun 12, 2008

Maybe Boo as an assist trophy. MAYBE.

I highly doubt that Boo would even be thought of as a playable character in Smash Bros.

Smash Bros. needs moar Jim Raynor.

kinu · Jun 12, 2008

Ugh, whatever thanks for bursting my bubble :{, i just thought he would of been a cool unique charecter. But they could of hade atleast one more 3rd party chacter i read somewere that the creater of megaman said he would of let him join, but he never got any word from nintendo about it, i would rather of hade megaman than sonic, although sonic is majorly awsome but has a cheap final smash.

Vol · Jun 12, 2008

I want Pac-Man FTW

kinu · Jun 12, 2008

I'm just wondering what would pac-mans move set be?

Cinder · Jun 13, 2008

Third party? Geno all the way ^_^...not having him in Brawl was a HUGE mistake...

kinu · Jun 16, 2008

Most defintly, i'm just wondering i rember reading somewere about things being downloadable in the futar through wifi for brawl, can anyone confirm/decline that for me it's really starting to bug me.

Pheonix · Jun 16, 2008

The only things that were really supposed to be downloadable were the custom stages that people made.

Cinder · Jun 17, 2008

kinu said:
Most defintly, i'm just wondering i rember reading somewere about things being downloadable in the futar through wifi for brawl, can anyone confirm/decline that for me it's really starting to bug me.

Sakurai himself said that there won't be any DLC's >.>...not that I'd care...Brawl is dead to me anyway (lack of competitiveness)...

And like Phoenix said, the only things you can download are stages, replays, and photos...

Akazu · Jun 20, 2008

This will take me some thought..

Take out
1.Jigglypuff:They weekend her/him/it way too much the rollout isnt that strong anymore. :-\
2.Mr.Game and Watch:I just don't like him.(too annoying) >

3.King DeDeDe: he's slow and most of his attacks kinda stink not to mention he's a big target.

4.Pit:Seriously why bring a character who only had one game 20 years ago(Ice climbers, R.O.B). His artwork looked lame back then. Nintendo just tried to make him more appealing by giving him an anime/manga appearance. (Which actually worked hard to believe)
5.R.O.B.: he wasnt even a character in actual game!

Put in
1.Dixie Kong:she's awesome although, now that rareware has no rights to D.K. I like it a bit less (especially what nintendo is doing to the series) but, it's still cool
2.Knuckles from sonic the hedgheog: He's cool and he fights nuff said.

3.Raiden from MGS:Each 3rd party should have ha another character and raiden is the best choice from MGS, plus he has a sword!

4.Roy:He was cool why take him out, they could have just changed his moveset slightly. Maybe a combination of marth's and Ike's moves.
5.Tails, also from sonic:having tails would been fun and It be fun to have the sonic trio.

Vol · Jun 22, 2008

For people who are saying no to Pit/Ice Climbers/Mr. Game and Watch because of how long ago it was since a game for them was made,

Stop.

Get over how old they are and actually play their games. You'll find they're addictive and fun. If you say "The game sucks because of suckish graphics", GET OVER IT!!!
Most of the best games ever were on old consoles.

You have no idea how mad it makes me when people don't play games because of graphics, which I'm sure is the reason you don't like the retro characters. Games weren't originally made to look good and fancy, they were made for entertainment. That's why I still play Mario Bros., Sonic the Hedgehog, Legend of Zelda, Chrono Trigger, Harvest Moon, Boy and his Blob, Starcraft, Tyrian, Pac-Man, actually almost all retro games I still own (which is 40+) You want nice looking stuff, watch a movie.

If you say you don't like Pit/Ice Climbers/Mr. Game & Watch for other reasons, I don't mind.

Also, NO ONE EVEN TOUCH MY JIGGLYPUFF!!! I win half the brawls I play online with her!

halls · Jun 22, 2008

i wouldn't take out anyone but i would defenitely like to have seen Tom Nook from Animal Crossing in there. they have an animal crossing battlefield but no characters. it would be so awesome. his different forms would be his outfits in the later shops like his suit in nookington's. you wouldn't understand this if you never played animal crossing but he's a raccoon and he sells you stuff. he would own. also would have liked to see chuck norris but thats a different story.

Cinder · Jun 22, 2008

Vol said:
For people who are saying no to Pit/Ice Climbers/Mr. Game and Watch because of how long ago it was since a game for them was made,

Stop.

Get over how old they are and actually play their games. You'll find they're addictive and fun. If you say "The game sucks because of suckish graphics", GET OVER IT!!!
Most of the best games ever were on old consoles.

You have no idea how mad it makes me when people don't play games because of graphics, which I'm sure is the reason you don't like the retro characters. Games weren't originally made to look good and fancy, they were made for entertainment. That's why I still play Mario Bros., Sonic the Hedgehog, Legend of Zelda, Chrono Trigger, Harvest Moon, Boy and his Blob, Starcraft, Tyrian, Pac-Man, actually almost all retro games I still own (which is 40+) You want nice looking stuff, watch a movie.

If you say you don't like Pit/Ice Climbers/Mr. Game & Watch for other reasons, I don't mind.

Also, NO ONE EVEN TOUCH MY JIGGLYPUFF!!! I win half the brawls I play online with her!

Thank you!! That's the biggest problem...a lot of people can't appreciate the fact that G&W, Pit, and the IC's were added for the sake of nostalgia...their games, even though small in number, helped shape what Nintendo is today...they're classics, and deserve representation...

And let me add one more thing...saying "so-and-so shouldn't be in because I don't like them" gets under my skin >.>...that's such a weak excuse...all I can say is that if you don't think someone should be in, you should try and support it...and using a character's weakness as an excuse is pretty low, too...just because, oh I dunno *coughDededecough...coughAkazucough* is weak, doesn't mean they shouldn't be in...such characters may very well have done quite a lot for their franchise, and therefore deserve a spot...and for anyone who says R.O.B was NEVER a PC in any game, MKDS says hi...

Rayn_Shyu · Jun 23, 2008

Eevee... Each stage it would randomly evolve into one of the Eeveloutions. It'd be a gamble, but I'd totally do it. I think that would be a unique experience to Brawl. (That and I just like all of them.)
And that's about it for now.

Who should of been in brawl

Expert FPS Player

Hero of Pizza