Will the 5th gen wind up being the most forgotten gen?

[precita]

I've been thinking about this since X and Y were announced.

The 5th gen is soon going to be sandwiched in the middle of all the recent pokemon games. It came out at the tail-end of the DS's lifespan after DP dominated it for 4 years. It's going to be stuck inbetween DP, HGSS and soon X and Y.

Releasing two gens on the same system makes it seem like DP will be the most remembered while BW is stuck in its shadow as well as HGSS to an extent. Then moving to X and Y will immediately take attention away from it due to being the first on the 3DS. It probably didn't help matters that outside of Japan the 5th gen won't even last 3 years due to the X and Y games getting a simultaneous release in every country for once.

What legacy do you think the 5th gen will have? I honestly think this will wind up being the most forgotten generation overall, especially with how quickly it's being swept under a rug. No remakes to extend the gen either.

 

[Coreysawrus]

I actually think DP is a fairly forgettable generation other than its time span and was a fairly disappointing generation, I think the sheer amount of Pokemon released in 5th Gen, the memorability of Pokemon and characters such as N and Zoroark and the sequel games may just save it from being forgotten.

 

[precita]

DP made a far bigger impact though. It was the first time you could go online and battle and the first games on the DS.

I will agree I liked N and Team Plasma, but other than that I struggle to think of what the 5th gen will be remembered for.

 

[KoL]

I agree with Riley honestly; even though Gen IV gave us online battles/trades, if you take that away you were left with a bland region for D/P/Pt (compared to Hoenn especially,) and only a few memorable new entries to the 'Dex buried under a metric ton of crap making it for me the worst regional 'Dex in any generation ever. HG/SS doesn't really count towards Gen IV purely on the grounds that they were remakes of Gen II games, and thus when you think of them, you think of Gen II.

Gen V is memorable for me for several reasons. The story in the main game is a fair bit different to the norm, especially in B1/W1 where the final boss wasn't the region champion but instead Ghetsis, the leader of the "evil team." The regional 'Dex in Gen V was vastly superior to Gen IV's, enough so that TPCi were able to make an entire metagame using only that regional 'Dex and nothing else outside of it, and the locations were a lot more memorable in Gen V due to the improved graphics allowing for unique-looking cities and landmarks (Castelia City anyone?)

Bottom line is that while Gen IV was good at the time, there's nothing about it that's memorable in hindsight, a problem Gen V definitely does not have.

 

[Doubled]

Gen V? Forgettable? I don't think so. First off, let's look at what it gave us: The first pure regional Pokedex since Kanto, as in it was the first since Kanto to have a Pokedex consisted entirely of Pokemon introduced within its generation. That gave us a new beginning, so to speak. Next, the characters. The characters in Generation V, from N learning to trust others to Bianca overcoming her controlling father are just moving to me.

Next, Gen V was the first main Pokemon game to receive a TRUE sequel, introducing enough to make it a brand new game and not be a rehash. Plus, the regional dex and levels in BW 2 made it so that you could build a team IN GAME that could probably become competitive. On to gyms and E4, it also managed to give us a true challenge, and I'm sure that I'm not the only one who thinks that fighting Iris actually felt AMAZING and FUN, compared to champions like Cynthia or Steven, who simply made it a scare and stressful encounter. Not to mention we also got to fight gym leaders from all the regions prior, even the mighty champion Red. I for one can't forget that ;P

I can see where you're coming from though. Prior to Gen V, Gen IV took up to 4 years before we heard about BW, and barely 2-3 years after Gen V, we get Gen VI, but is this really such a bad thing? I'm sure I'm not alone when I say that by the time Black and White were announced, we were sick and tired of HGSS or Platinum, so we're able to move on while Gen V is still fresh in our memories and we can fondly look back as we move on.

So, let's look at it like this: It was an entirely different experience from what we are used to. The story was actually a story, the music was fantastic, the Pokemon were amazing, the Pokedex was huge and unique, the region vast and gorgeous, the characters unforgettable, the enemy that actually made you think about how you treated your Pokemon... Yeah, I'm not forgetting this anytime soon ;P I bet Gen V will be used as a pretty good reference for future generations to compare what they bring.

 

[Stark]

I personally forget an awful lot of Gens IV and V. Whenever I pick them up to play through again, I am always faced with "What's that again?" or "Oh yeah, that's a thing.".

Maybe it's just my forgetfulness with these types of games... Or maybe its my Gen I-III elitism

 

[RLRL]

I can't see gen 5 being forgotten any time soon.

It was a huge breath of fresh air to the series, nintendo didn't do a remake only a sequel, it pioneered the dream world giving a whole new lease of life to so many pokémon (Politoed, Espeon and Ninetails come to mind instantly!), and to top it off, we've had quite possibly the best storyline for a pokémon game ever.

I agree with the sentiment above, gen4 is much more forgettable, I didn't even enjoy playing through Diamond and Pearl as much as I'd enjoyed RSE, it was a bit of an odd region, it wasn't until platinum 'til you could actually use some of the new evolutions of old pokémon until after you'd completed the league. So few great pokémon came out in gen 4, it was essentially a "filler" generation. In the same way that GSC only added 100 pokémon to the pokédex, a few of which were pre/evos of previous pokémon. Gen 5 having it's own entire pokédex meant that you couldn't just pick up an old faithful like Machamp or Crobat, or walk into a patch of grass and just go "nothing new to see here" and walk off because you know you can just transfer up those pokémon at a later date.

Gen 6 will probably be more famous, but the announcement that it will have a pokédex over 700 makes me a bit wary. If we end up with 751 then when you take starters and legendaries (even if they cut legendaries down to lets say 9 this generation) would mean 84 new pokémon outside of those obligatory few. This would essentially work down to a maximum of 30 evolution lines and a few standalone pokémon, and that's without them adding in a few pre's/evo's for any old lines. I'm going completely off topic here, so going to shut up about gen 6 now.

BW2 was great fun, I'd say it was a brave move on Nintendo's part, that seems to have paid off, I really liked the memory link, adding in medals was a fantastic idea, and the keys system makes it such a fun game to play through more than once. If anything, it could be a sign to come that when inevitably they re-release games for 3DS we won't get remakes and remastering, we could be seeing actual sequels for older games. I'll happily forego a RSE remake if we get an actual sequel in hoenn.

 

[Demelza]

I guess it's a kind of yes and no for me. Originally I was okay with Black and White, I enjoyed exploring Unova and getting to meet new Pokémon, but it was lacking something and I felt like I'd push it down with third gen as my most forgettable generation of the games/series... That was up until we were given Black & White 2. I think just including older Pokémon and allowing fans to choose between new and old (or have a mix if both!), is what got me to like Unova a lot more. I'm the kind of person who will always enjoy a new adventure and new places to explore, but I think I also like to be able to do it with characters I already know as well as coming across new stuff. I guess I just didn't like how they completely rebooted it, even if it was to make it easier for new fans etc. I always disliked the idea, not greatly helped by the fact I didn't like many of the Pokémon we were given.

As a region I liked Sinnoh a lot more than Unova, and again I only took to it because I was allowed to explore it with Pokémon I knew (and the changes in the second games to the region were really nice). I guess the anime, while interesting, never felt like it was on par with the fourth generation either, so I wouldn't be surprised if I forgot a lot of it in years to come.

I think personally the fifth generation will be quite forgettable for me, because it's stuck between the fourth gen which I really liked, and the sixth which I already know I'm going to really enjoy from loving the three starters. In the grand scheme of things though? I certainly don't think this will be a forgettable gen for most Pokémon fans as it brought with it quite a lot of change, moreso good than bad. It may not have lasted quite as long as we expected, but I think that also likely helped it a lot.

 

[Toastie]

Everything I was going to say has been said already really. Gen IV was bland and uninspired in terms of Pokemon Design, Region and Music. Game Freak were really getting complacent with the series, and the absurd lack of innovation shows. One of the main new features, the GTS, wasn't even very good, for instance.

Gen V is my favourite in terms of Pokemon and Trainers. Additionally, considering the fact that it was on the same system as the Gen IV games , but managed to achieve so much more really makes them seem inferior.

 

[precita]

Wow I'm surprised about all the DP hate in this topic. It always seemed to me that people really liked the 4th gen as it was going on.

 

[Linkachu]

Personally I can't really agree with the majority of negative points presented in this topic. I've found both Gen IV and Gen V to be very memorable for their own reasons.

Game-wise, Gen IV introduced online trading and battling, the new battling mechanics, and had a slew of very good games (including Platinum, HG, and SS). Unlike KoL, I lump HG/SS in with the Gen IV games because they included all of the gameplay improvements introduced in D/P/Pt and are a helluva lot more polished than the Gen II originals were. Mind you, I don't even like to think about the originals sooooo... ;x Toastie also breaks my heart because I personally found D/P/Pt's music to be fantastic, but each to their own!

Gen V on the otherhand introduced two Pokemon games with the most developed plot and supporting characters to date. That climax with N's Castle, N himself and Ghetsis? I loved it. It was brilliant. Then we received B2W2, another big surprise for the gaming series. Even if sequel games become the new standard, B2W2 will always be remembered for breaking the third game trend. I'm thinking that the PWT will also be talked about for many years to come, especially if something similar doesn't make an appearance in future games.

Anime-wise the Sinnoh saga has been by far the best to date, so I won't be forgetting it anytime soon. Best Wishes on the otherhand isn't as good writing-wise, but it's notable for finally ditching Brock and revamping TR.

Pokemon-wise... Well, I really don't understand why people like to hate on an entire generation of Pokemon. Gens II and III didn't really have better new Pokemon on the whole compared to IV and V. I've always had Pokemon that I love each gen, Pokemon I like, and Pokemon that I'm neutral on. Nothing's changed there.

In my humble opinion each gen is as much notable as it is forgettable (apart from Gen I which started it all). Each new generation has brought something new to the table and introduced new Pokemon. The rest is just down to personal tastes. Fans of Gen V will remember Gen V fondly just as fans of Gen IV, III, and II will continue to appreciate them. When you start writing lists of points regarding which generation accomplished the most and therefore should seem more memorable, the points tend to look fairly similar.

But tl;dr, I don't believe Gen V will be the most forgotten generation as every generation may or may not appear forgettable based on subjective opinion.

 

[Coreysawrus]

Never like Gen 4 at all and as yourself and KoL mentioned it only brought Wi-Fi to the table. The Pokemon were bland, the cities looked bland and the battle frontier it brought along was frankly awful. I think the only thing I'll find memorable from that region is the gym leaders as they seemed to have the most personality.

 

[Toastie]

Toastie also breaks my heart because I personally found D/P/Pt's music to be fantastic, but each to their own!

Sorry, I didn't mean to break your heart! I was generalising a bit when I criticised D/P/Pt's music - some of it is great - in particular, I like the Dialga/Palkia battle music, the Frontier Brain battle music and the Lake Trio battle music. None of it is bad exactly. However, I think it just pales in comparison to the HG/SS, B/W and B2/W2 music, which is consistently brilliant. Of course, HG/SS is part of Gen IV anyway, so I can count the amazing Ho-oh battle music, Dark Cave music and Route 38 music (which they kept the same as Stadium 2!).

I liked a lot of Gen IV Pokemon, although most of them were evolutions of existing ones. While I think this was a good decision, it really detracted from the region. Again, I much prefer Gen V over Gen IV in this department.

I stick by with what I said before about features, however (apart from HG/SS, because Pokeathlon was much more fun than Contests or Musicals). Online trading and battle should be a given on a system like the DS, and they did very little with those things anyway. The visual style was very similar to Gen III, and battles were still completely static, which was frankly very poor considering what they managed with B/W.

Again, I really liked HG/SS, and I also enjoyed D/P/Pt, but B/W really make them seem inferior. It didn't help that D/P didn't even have a lot of the new Pokemon until post-story. Nevertheless, I'll always love that Gen's Pokemon, if only for Togekiss

 

[Carmen Lopez]

Ugh! My phone ate my post... and it took forever to type so I'll keep it simple and elaborate later

I too don't understand the Gen IV hate going on because it broke far more new ground than Gen V. Heck, the special/physical split alone meant more to me than anything Gen V did. The more mature tone in storytelling was set in DPPt and expanded in Gen V. We got lots of new Pokemon in Gen V which was awesome because Gen IV did a crap job of that, but again it's not new ground. And I honestly forgot that the GTS failed hard because Dream World failed that much harder. Oh, and it doesn't help that BW set the Wi-Fi back to the proverbial Stone Age.

That being said, I enjoyed Gen V because the storyline rocked and Unova is a beautiful region. I certainly don't think it will be forgotten, but it just didn't do as much for me as, well any of the other generations in breaking new ground.

 

[Toastie]

The more mature tone in storytelling was set in DPPt and expanded in Gen V.

D/P/Pt's plot seemed very similar to previous games to me, whereas B/W's plot had some interesting characters. N, for instance: his desire to do good in the world and his gift to talk to Pokémon is manipulated by Ghetsis, who pretends to be a father figure, but is actually just cold and calculating. Additionally, it was nice that they shook things up by making the player battle the team's leader later on than normal.

 

[Coreysawrus]

I think the plot for D/P/Pt was too over the top for me to actually like it. I actually didn't like the music in D/P/Pt either and I felt quite a few places looked too drab or samesy. Gen 5 had a lot more diversity in that aspect.

 

[precita]

Gen V on the otherhand introduced two Pokemon games with the most developed plot and supporting characters to date. That climax with N's Castle, N himself and Ghetsis? I loved it. It was brilliant. Then we received B2W2, another big surprise for the gaming series. Even if sequel games become the new standard, B2W2 will always be remembered for breaking the third game trend. I'm thinking that the PWT will also be talked about for many years to come, especially if something similar doesn't make an appearance in future games.

I agree. I think the one thing the 5th gen has going for it was the bets developed villain team plot in the games. I enjoyed Team Galactic but this was definitely better handled. Makes you wonder how they will top it in the 6th gen.

Anime-wise the Sinnoh saga has been by far the best to date, so I won't be forgetting it anytime soon. Best Wishes on the otherhand isn't as good writing-wise, but it's notable for finally ditching Brock and revamping TR.

BW has a better cast than DP, even if Sinnoh itself was a better saga. Brock was stale and uninteresting in DP, while Cilan is actually a great character. And while I enjoyed Dawn's contests, the character herself came across as very flat personality wise, especially compared to Misty and May, that I assume this is why she didn't become as popular as the writers had hoped. You can pretty much tell the writers were hoping Dawn became a lot more popular than she did, and when it didn't work out they reduced her screentime and abandoned the whole female co-star aspect. I do still like her a bit better than Iris though, mainly because she was better developed. We can safely say that DP had the best rival for Ash and villains in the show though.

Pokemon-wise... Well, I really don't understand why people like to hate on an entire generation of Pokemon. Gens II and III didn't really have better new Pokemon on the whole compared to IV and V. I've always had Pokemon that I love each gen, Pokemon I like, and Pokemon that I'm neutral on. Nothing's changed there.

Definitely. There are great and not-so-great pokemon in every generation. Each gen has some pokemon I really like while others are either poorly designed or I just have no interest in. Overall though each gen does have its share of cool Pokemon. I'd place them even.

Admittedly DP had way too many evo's of old Pokemon...some that were even stupid looking like LickyLicky. Or Probopass...that one was awful.

 

[X_Milotic_X]

I think the region will be forgotten and most pokemon will remain in our minds.

Pokémon like Haxorus and Chandelure will not be forgotten easily. I think the legendary trio will be the less liked of any of the trios. But the region will have it's Good parts remembered. I will definatly remember all the bridges and Especially the Marine Tube.

 

[Secad MS]

Personally, I find Generation V harder to remember, as I started with the fourth generation. Just like one's first Doctor, one remembers their first generation better. I'm not saying it was forgettable, but I approached IV at a time where I was still in middle/high school and had a decent amount of free time. With V, it took me quite a while to beat my Black, and I've only gotten two badges in Black 2. This is due to the lack of time I've had due to college and stuff, meaning I won't be running through it as often, reducing the chances the material has to solidify in memory.

 

[Carmen Lopez]

The more mature tone in storytelling was set in DPPt and expanded in Gen V.

D/P/Pt's plot seemed very similar to previous games to me, whereas B/W's plot had some interesting characters.

Ha! I finally have a computer for this. Honestly DPPt doesn't feel like the previous games at all imo. I'm guessing it's because of the depth of DPPt universe in comparison to the other games. This time around we had an extensive mythology and we started getting into alternate dimensions and how time and space began. Gen IV just felt meatier than what we've seen before and that definitely didn't start with Gen V.

I've thought some more about this topic and while we (the hardcore Pokemon fans) won't forget Gen V, I'm no longer so sure about more casual fans. Hardly anyone I know talks that much about Gen V. I know one of my friends in particular got a look at most of the Pokemon in Gen V and was like, eh. So...I guess only time will tell. I certainly hope people remember Gen V.

 

[KoL]

I too don't understand the Gen IV hate going on because it broke far more new ground than Gen V. Heck, the special/physical split alone meant more to me than anything Gen V did.

This game is upset that you forgot about it coming up with the physical/special split first:

So technically as groundbreaking as that was, Gen III was the one that initiated that change, not Gen IV.

 

[Carmen Lopez]

Wow lol.

That's the first time I've ever heard of that.

Then again I never touched that game, but why does everyone credit Gen IV?

 

[KoL]

Basically, XD Gale of Darkness featured moves with a "Shadow" type (viewed as ???-type in the actual game) that could only be used by Shadow Pokemon. The type was super-effective against normal Pokemon but not very effective against other Shadow Pokemon. Unlike the other types in Gen III however that were either physical or special depending on what type they were, some of the Shadow moves were physical and some of them were special. Although it was only with a single move type that only XD and its prequel used, the type still had a physical/special split that Gen IV would later implement with every type in the game, making XD and thus Gen III the originator of the physical/special split.

The fact that it only did it with a single type that wasn't even a regular type in the game (whereas Gen IV did the split with every single type) is the main reason why XD isn't credited with the split, but it is the game that first came up with it. Also, almost no-one played it, so most people wouldn't even know it did it at all.

 

[Carmen Lopez]

Ah, gotcha. Out of all the side games, XD was the only one I regret not playing and that revelation only makes me want to play it more.

Also, I wonder if the lack of a Gen V PBR/Stadium type shindig will hurt it's longevity. Granted with Gen VI coming as fast as it did, I'm glad they waited, but it's hard not to think that Gen V got the shaft in that category.

 

[KoL]

I'd consider XD worth a look if you can get hold of it.

Gen V lacking a Stadium/PBR equivalent is something many people have noted and felt disappointed by, especially considering the 3D Pokedex app on the 3DS showed they had new 3D models for all the Pokemon in the 'Dex. For me personally the absence of such a game has resulted in Gen V having without a doubt the most forgettable set of spin-off games of every generation (I honestly can't remember the title of any of the Gen V spin-off games off the top of my head - it's that bad) but I think whether that would make Gen V as a whole forgettable to someone would vary since there are players who ignore the spin-off games and many others who play and enjoy many of them.

 

[Coreysawrus]

I think it may affect it a little but not much, PBR to me is only really memorable because it was so terrible.

As for spin-off games I can think of Super Pokemon Rumble, Conquest and PMD: Magnagate. I would remember Pokepark 2 if I had played it. I think Typing Adventure is the main reason it came with a keyboard which ramped up the price for a game that didn't look good in the slightest

And just noticed my quote in your sig xD

 

[Shocari]

Conquest is best spinoff. [/Dynasty/Samurai Warriors fanboy]

The only people who are going to forget Gen V are the bloody Genwunners. Gen V gave us so much that it's hard not to be thankful for it. The Dream World, while complete shit, did improve a large number of Pokemon, most notably older and forgotten 'mons. B2W2 included the PWT, so those complaining people would shut up about there not being all of the regions included in one game(yeah, it's just Gym Leaders and Champions, but that's a hell of a lot better than nothing and I personally prefer it to all five regions).

Being the transition phase of DS to 3DS, I'd say that Gen V did a lot of things right, and by BW making us use only regional 'mons, that makes the players have to learn and come to respect the new Pokemon instead of defaulting to what they're familiar with. I'll be the first to admit that I was very put-off by some of the Gen V pokes, but after using them, I can say with absolute certainty that most of them aren't that bad(I mean using them both in-game and competitively).

Whether some people like it or not, BW forced us to remember Gen V by making us go into the realm of the unknown. No prior Pokemon, locations, or people. We had to adjust to everything. If you don't remember it, it's because you don't want to remember it.

 

[precita]

C
The only people who are going to forget Gen V are the bloody Genwunners.

That's not true at all. I've seen many fans of Gen III and Gen IV not care for the 5th generation either. So its not just those, "nostalgic Kanto fans," that everyone moans about.

Gen V almost felt like a filler generation, and as we get a few years into Gen VI we'll see if people look back on it fondly or not.

 

[KoL]

I'd like to know how Gen V can be considered a "filler generation" when you had the worst Regional 'Dex ever come immediately before it (and that's not just opinion, at least half of that 'Dex may as well not even exist due to unoriginal design and/or being either obsolete or utterly useless) and before that was by far the most polarizing generation so far in Gen III, which is either loved for how great a region Hoenn was or hated for feeling like a step backward from Gen II despite the enhanced graphics and addition of abilities, to the point where many people who aren't fans of Gen III consider it to be the worst generation in the series.

For all your insistence that Gen V is so "forgettable" compared to the other generations, you've yet to give one proper reason as to why that is.

 

[Coreysawrus]

I think the huge fail that was Gen 4 could overshadow it because a lot of people tend to focus on negatives rather than positives. Despite all the praise I've seen for Gen 3 on here, in terms of online presence it seems to be incredibly forgotten. Gen 5 in my eyes will probably be as memorable as Gen 2, being rather average in memorability

 

[KoL]

Gen IV wasn't THAT bad, let's be reasonable here, if it was then it would be the polarizing one instead of Gen III.

 

[Coreysawrus]

I'm not saying Gen 3 wasn't a fail either, its just less memorable

 

[Shocari]

I find Gen III to be way more memorable than Gen IV. Gen III brought forth a huge surge of innovation in terms of natures, abilities, and a fix of the IV system. Hoenn itself had very unique towns and cities, and I'm quite sure more people wanted Dive back than Defog and Rock Climb combined. Sinnoh was the most bland region by far, the snow routes were hellishly awful, Team Galactic's outfits became an eyesore fast, and Barry was unneededly hyper. The sheer amount of evolutions added for pre-existing Pokemon was just ridiculous, and actually ruined several of their pre-evos for me(Gliscor, Weavile, Mamoswine, and Pory-Z being the only tolerable ones).

And for the few new, original Pokemon introduced by Sinnoh that I do like, I find myself wishing that Sinnoh never exist and that they were introduced in a different game. Sinnoh is far and away my least favorite region, and the level of negativity it holds negates any of the awesome that HGSS brought to Gen IV. At least one of the few good points for Gen IV is that the online mode wasn't ass.

 

[Linkachu]

I'd like to know how Gen V can be considered a "filler generation" when you had the worst Regional 'Dex ever come immediately before it (and that's not just opinion, at least half of that 'Dex may as well not even exist due to unoriginal design and/or being either obsolete or utterly useless)

I'd very easily debate that since many people hold particular Gen IV Pokemon in high regards (Buizel, Lucario, Infernape, Pory Z, Rotom, Abomasnow, Weavile, Togekiss, and Garchomp just to name a few of the buggers). The designs really aren't that bad or unoriginal either, especially when compared to the likes of Gen 2 which started the baby and spherical Pokemon craze. I won't deny that some of the Gen IV Pokemon are completely forgettable, if not downright bad, but the same can be said for literally every generation - including the original 151. ;x

 

[KoL]

I probably should point out that I am a Gen III fan myself, Hoenn was a brilliant region I'd love to see explored again and I loved how Gen III initiated the generation remakes with FR/LG, but at the same time there is a lot of people who bash Gen III, and of all the generations I've seen get hated on I've found Gen III is known for getting the worst of it.

As for Gen IV, yeah it had some good stuff, but pointing that out doesn't address the real issue; all the shit that it was among. For example:

- Bibarel I'll allow since he was original with his typing and memorable for his silly design, however:
- Kricketune line was useless and forgettable.
- Luxray line looked cool but was rendered obsolete by a Pokemon that appeared in the same generation (Electivire)
- Rampardos and Bastiodon were probably the least useful fossil Pokemon ever and their designs weren't much to write home about either.
- The less said about the Burmy line(s) the better, a complete waste of 'Dex space.
- Combee and Vespiquen show that Bug/Flying have been done to death, shame since the typing is god-fucking-awful as it is.
- Pachirisu yay. At least Emolga was Electric/Flying.
- Cherrim + Groudon was cool and all but how many people like Cherrim?
- Lopunny's another dull Normal-type with no purpose.
- Purugly likewise. We've yet to see a Normal-type cat better than Persian.
- What was the point in Chingling again? Chimecho was forgettable anyway and Chingling did nothing to change that.
- Skuntank being Poison/Dark would have been cool if Drapion hadn't also done it in the same generation, and Drapion seems more noteworthy than Skuntank anyway (which is saying a lot because Drapion isn't that noteworthy itself.)
- Carnivine looked cool, venus flytrap and all that, but beyond that was pointless.
- Lumineon is the most pointless line in the entire 'Dex to date.
- Lickitung was already obsolete. Lickilicky did nothing to change that.
- Dusknoir did not need to exist and was rendered almost obsolete when Eviolite came along.
- Porygon-Z was also hurt by Eviolite's presence, and Porygon 2 is vastly preferred over it.
- I've already addressed the flaws with the Gen IV legendaries elsewhere.

The previous generations had their crap, sure, but earlier on there was less Pokemon anyway, so everything sort-of had its place bar the odd line (Ledian in Gen II, Chimecho and Masquerain in Gen III for example,) but at least most of the shit Pokemon in Gen III were memorable because of just how useless they were (no-one forgets about Spinda and Luvdisc do they?) The problem here is that due to there being more Pokemon at the time of its arrival, Gen V should have had it far worse than Gen IV did and yet there's very few forgettable/useless lines in Gen V's regional 'Dex, which was made apparent in VGC11 when that regional 'Dex was all you could use to compete. Gen IV's 'Dex in comparison makes it seem like no-one really cared when it came to fleshing it out, so they just threw in a load of crap to boost the numbers.

A handful of gems do not make up for a truckload of shit. At least people actually remember the weaker lines in Gens I-III.

 

[Linkachu]

As much as I agree with your points, nothing here is more than your opinion, KoL. ^^; Some of the Pokemon you listed are downright loved by people within the fandom (particularly Luxray, Dusknoir, Rampardos, Pory-Z, Mothim, and Pachirisu). Fans may not judge those Pokemon based on their competitive uses, but they still love them for what they are. And the rest you've listed really aren't any worse than filler Pokemon within other dexes.

I'm sure someone who hates Gen 3 and 5 could make lists just like yours here. Hells, I know certain people who skipped those gens entirely because they disliked the new Pokemon featured within 'em so much (same can be said for Gen IV, mind you). As for people remembering the weaker lines in Gens 1-3 verses Gen 4, that's not really true either. Pokemon like Sunkern and Luvdisc do tend to get forgotten because they aren't favoured by many people. It mostly depends on which generation a particular fan started with.

A handful of gems do not make up for a truckload of shit. At least people actually remember the weaker lines in Gens I-III.

The thing is, one can easily say the reverse of your statement here - that a handful of crap doesn't ruin an entire generation. Personally that's more my view on it too. Going through the Gen IV dex made me realize just how many of those Pokemon are loved, quite a bit at that. I only listed off a handful to make a point, not to share a comprehensive list. It'd be kinda moot to do so all things considered.

For the record, I don't particularly favour the Gen IV dex over the others (I likely favour gens 1 and 3 most) but I don't really agree with the mentality that Gen IV is terrible or uninspired when compared to the other generations, soz.

 

[Toastie]

I think it was difficult for Gen IV to carve out an identity for itself in terms of Pokémon. Only 66 non-legendary Pokémon from new evolutionary lines were introduced (actually I think it may be even less than that, I just did a quick count and may have missed some). Also, some of the pre-evos they added barely appeared and were pretty useless. Who was requesting a Chimecho pre-evo? Additionally, a lot of the evolutions weren't encountered until post-story in D/P anyway.

 

[KoL]

I don't know a single person who likes Mothim or Pachirisu. Dusknoir and Pory-Z were pointed out due to the Eviolite issue rather than being unpopular and Luxray was due to the Electivire issue (again, SAME GENERATION.) I'll give you Rampardos but personally I don't see the point of it when we've already had giant rock dinosaurs like Aggron and Rhydon.

The fact that Gen III and Gen V both had entire metagames made with their regional 'Dexes to me shows that you can't make such lists with them, players found a use for almost everything in both of those 'Dexes. Try a Gen IV 'Dex-only meta, you'll have Hippowdon-led sandstorm teams everywhere because most of the 'Dex is trash and most of the good stuff (which isn't a lot) works well with Hippowdon. Makes me glad no-one ever bothered trying that honestly.

To me this shows the difference in quality between Gen IV and Gens III and V quite prominently.

 

[Linkachu]

I think it was difficult for Gen IV to carve out an identity for itself in terms of Pokémon. Only 66 non-legendary Pokémon from new evolutionary lines were introduced (actually I think it may be even less than that, I just did a quick count and may have missed some). Also, some of the pre-evos they added barely appeared and were pretty useless. Who was requesting a Chimecho pre-evo? Additionally, a lot of the evolutions weren't encountered until post-story in D/P anyway.

That I agree with. When going through the Gen IV 'dex I was reminded just how small it was when you took away the legendaries and new evolutions. I guess they wanted to make it smaller due to Gen III having such a large amount of new Pokemon. For better or worse, something tells me that Gen VI will be facing a similar situation as Gen IV.

 

[Toastie]

I guess they wanted to make it smaller due to Gen III having such a large amount of new Pokemon. For better or worse, something tells me that Gen VI will be facing a similar situation as Gen IV.

Yeah, they seem to alternate it each gen. Odd numbers are a new start, even numbers borrow more from other regions. I think the Gen VI 'dex will be filled with a lot of Gen V Pokémon, which I'm fine with, as it's my favourite Gen in terms of Pokémon design.

Honestly, I'm glad that they structure things like that. I think it's good to revisit old generations and give their Pokémon evolutions, because it's better to increase the concentration of useful evolution lines than to introduce more and more Ratatas and Pidgeys.