Private/Closed Naruto AU RP: discussion

[Shen: King of Digimon]

Taiyo
That did cause him to think on the matter, there are plenty of capable Chunnin and even Jonin who were much more capable for the job, so it wouldn't make sense to send him.

"That is true, however I'm no ordinary genin, I single handedly killed one member of the sound four and beaten the other into retreat, not to mention being able to give the winner of the Chunnin exams a run for her money. I bravely fought off the sound invaders and I even held my own against you, albeit with a handicap. So I believe if you were to send any genin, I would be the best candidate for the job," He then powered up to FBS in its Red state, which was noticeably more powerful than the rainbow that the aura looked like 2 months ago, "As you can see, my training with Jiraiya has also made me a different shinobi, and if you don't believe me, I can prove it,"

Wow, when did you get the balls to challenge your Kage?

Bout the same time you decided to speak.
Tsuki
The Yuki-nin closely as the the arrow flew into the doll. Her eyes widened in shock as the target seemingly exploded with ice, but that isn't what disturbed her. Rather, Tsuki was concern of what consequences slight arise due to the use or misuse of such technique. Granted, she thought that the string she created in battle could be helpful as a whip, but the technique Hama showed her was clearly more effective.

"Thank you Hama-sensei, may I try now?" A sly look began to grow on the kunoichi's face, as she was brewing up her own method of the technique.

The doll never exploded by the way

 

[kyuukestu]

I mean...are you sure?

I'd pretty much be TLDR the Sharingan can do almost everything the Byakugan can do, and the additional advantages it has that the Byakugan lacks (Barring kyuu changing its fundamental aspects to be even more OP out of principle) makes it not only better but not even in the same league.

Please tell me what fundamental aspects I've changed. Just point them out.

 

[Retro Master]

So I decided too mark down the milestones for the discussion...

100: Retro

1k: Nebby

2k: Retro

3k: Nebby

4k:

XD IM THE FOUR THOUSANDTH POST, that's why I didn't really care about page 100

5k:

I’m the 5000th post

6k: Nebby

7k:

Fufufu, nice try Nebby but I'll be taking this 7000th post.

8k:

*also casually takes the 8000th post of this RP from Nebby

9k: Jacob

10k: Nebby

11k: Jacob

12k: Nebby

13k:

whut? are you high?

Lmao

14k: Soul

15k: Rohan

16k: Soul

17k:

17,000~

18k: Soul

Looks like Nebby is in the lead rn. Shen also has the first post so I can’t really call him out for missing the others lel

 

[Shen: King of Digimon]

Hey I took one too, but nebby like Deleted 8 posts so he could steal it

 

[DarkHydraT]

So I decided too mark down the milestones for the discussion...

100: Retro

1k: Nebby

2k: Retro

3k: Nebby

4k:


5k:


6k: Nebby

7k:


8k:


9k: Jacob

10k: Nebby

11k: Jacob

12k: Nebby

13k:

Lmao

14k: Soul

15k: Rohan

16k: Soul

17k:

18k: Soul

Looks like Nebby is in the lead rn. Shen also has the first post so I can’t really call him out for missing the others lel

Do you have this much free time or were you just bored to bits?

 

[Retro Master]

Hey I took one too, but nebby like Deleted 8 posts so he could steal it

Oh yeah I forgot that lmao which one was it?

Do you have this much free time or were you just bored to bits?

Bored. The pattern is every 25 pages so it wasn’t that hard to find them all.

 

[Godjacob]

Please tell me what fundamental aspects I've changed. Just point them out.

Mainly this idea that the prediction capability of the Uchiha is one and the same with the Byakugan's visual x-ray. It's two different mechanics as the Sharingan's trick involves remarkable memorization and recognition on top of just being able to view the muscles of the enemy. The Byakugan functions rather differently; as it focuses on spotting chakra networks and greater peripheral vision and enhanced perception speed. Nothing about being able to memorize those movements to a degree of prediction.

Tweaking something to basically give you the exact same power as another Kekkei Genkai to me is fundamentally changing something; even with a "reasonable" base. It makes the unique traits of what should be a bloodline ability questionable and it cheapens the Byakugan by making it "compete" with a Sharingan by copying one of its tricks.

 

[Shen: King of Digimon]

Oh yeah I forgot that lmao which one was it?


Bored. The pattern is every 25 pages so it wasn’t that hard to find them all.

6k post I think lol

 

[sSoul]

The doll never exploded by the way

Then I must make an edit. Feels bad man xD

 

[Shen: King of Digimon]

Then I must make an edit. Feels bad man xD

Yeahhh neccisary evil though XD. She basically surgically removed the dolls limbs before the needle came out of the head, slitting it in two

 

[sSoul]

Yeahhh neccisary evil though XD. She basically surgically removed the dolls limbs before the needle came out of the head, slitting it in two

The evil has been pleased, now you may proceed to be the fastest reply in the West.

 

[SageNeb]

So I decided too mark down the milestones for the discussion...

100: Retro

1k: Nebby

2k: Retro

3k: Nebby

4k:


5k:


6k: Nebby

7k:


8k:


9k: Jacob

10k: Nebby

11k: Jacob

12k: Nebby

13k:

Lmao

14k: Soul

15k: Rohan

16k: Soul

17k:

18k: Soul

Looks like Nebby is in the lead rn. Shen also has the first post so I can’t really call him out for missing the others lel

just stole that 17k btw xd

 

[kyuukestu]

Mainly this idea that the prediction capability of the Uchiha is one and the same with the Byakugan's visual x-ray.

No, they are not one in the same.

X-ray vision is a base ability of the Byakugan.

Predictive capabilities are, by definition, not a base ability of the Sharingan. Now stick with me on this one before you yell my head off as to why I'm wrong.

I'm using the word basic with the definitive sense that it's Something which cannot be broken down further.

It's two different mechanics as the Sharingan's trick involves remarkable memorization and recognition on top of just being able to view the muscles of the enemy.

Going by your own words, the Sharingan's abilities are a byproduct of Muscle memory, visual prowess, and recognition. In this sense, it is not a basic ability, but rather a complex one, meaning that it is created of many smaller abilities.

So we've got three basic abilities namely: visual prowess, memorization, and recognition; that come together to form a complex ability- Prediction.

We can all agree that in terms of the basic ability visual prowess, the Byakugan is superior. For the intents of this argument, we don't even need to call it superior, we just need to agree that the basic ability exists.

The Byakugan functions rather differently; as it focuses on spotting chakra networks and greater peripheral vision and enhanced perception speed. Nothing about being able to memorize those movements to a degree of prediction.

We can agree on this, the instantaneous combination of recognition and memorization are what I call auto-pilot, and the Byakugan indeed does not have that.

However, the structure and musculature of the human body are set in stone, they're not going to change. For a given action, e.g. punching, the same general set of muscles, ligaments, and tendons will move regardless of who performs the action.

Given that Prediction is really three basic abilities, what the Byakugan lacks are memorization and recognition.

But then again we don't need the Byakugan for that, the Human Brain is more than capable of performing memorization and recognition. Through the observation of the same repetitive process over time, the brain would no doubt grow capable of both memorizing this process and recognizing it should the same process be placed before it in the future.

I'm calling that acclimatization until one can recognize and recall an observable process- Training.

Tweaking something to basically give you the exact same power as another Kekkei Genkai to me is fundamentally changing something; even with a "reasonable" base. It makes the unique traits of what should be a bloodline ability questionable and it cheapens the Byakugan by making it "compete" with a Sharingan by copying one of its tricks.

Except by my logic I've tweaked nothing; what the Byakugan lacked was made up for by the existence of a Brain -a processing supercomputer (and that's without boosts by mythical energies like chakra)- and hard work, to achieve the same results.

Predictive Abilities aren't Unique to the Sharingan, regular human fighters can predict their opponents through sheer experience and recognition of body language. What's unique to the Sharingan is the instantaneous achievement of this feat without the need for training.

It does not make the 'unique' trait questionable since the trait was never unique, to begin with. To give an example, Uchiha w/ Sharingan are born as Black belts. Does this mean that black belts are unique to the Uchiha? No, what's unique to them is their ability to bypass the lower levels of training.

It does not cheapen the Byakugan because I've done nothing to the Byakugan, it remains with the same basic abilities it's always had. It's not being upgraded to 'compete' with the Sharingan by copying a trick, because this trick is, in fact, no trick at all but just a shortcut to achieve a result.

The Uchiha are taking an Uchiha-Only shortcut (the Sharingan) to the finish line (Prediction). However, my point is that it's not a race in which only Uchiha can run. They might certainly get to the goal first, but that doesn't stop others from making it there through the long route.

Even a regular human without special eyeballs could develop predictive capabilities by gaining the experience to read body language because this accounts for the Recognition and Memorization aspects of this ability. It wouldn't be as strong as a wielder of Dojutsu's because they'd lack the visual acuity, but memorization and recognition aren't an issue.

 

[SageNeb]

I tagged 5 people to join, so I claim all of those xK posts (from those people) which brings my total to 12. therefore retro is second place, godjacob is 3rd, and rohan is 4th

 

[Godjacob]

No, they are not one in the same.

X-ray vision is a base ability of the Byakugan.

Predictive capabilities are, by definition, not a base ability of the Sharingan. Now stick with me on this one before you yell my head off as to why I'm wrong.

I'm using the word basic with the definitive sense that it's Something which cannot be broken down further.

We can all agree that in terms of the basic ability visual prowess, the Byakugan is superior. For the intents of this argument, we don't even need to call it superior, we just need to agree that the basic ability exists.

Except for the Sharingan that is a basic ability. It may be "complex" by IRL standards but to the Sharigna it is one of its most basic functions. As you do not need one of its latter upgrades to use it nor do you need the full three Tomeo to display the capabilities. There is nothing further for them to "break down" as it is as seemless an ability to them as X-Ray vision would be to the Byakugan.

We can agree on this, the instantaneous combination of recognition and memorization are what I call auto-pilot, and the Byakugan indeed does not have that.

However, the structure and musculature of the human body are set in stone, they're not going to change. For a given action, e.g. punching, the same general set of muscles, ligaments, and tendons will move regardless of who performs the action.

Given that Prediction is really three basic abilities, what the Byakugan lacks are memorization and recognition.

But then again we don't need the Byakugan for that, the Human Brain is more than capable of performing memorization and recognition. Through the observation of the same repetitive process over time, the brain would no doubt grow capable of both memorizing this process and recognizing it should the same process be placed before it in the future.

I'm calling that acclimatization until one can recognize and recall an observable process- Training.

I mean the point of this comparison is focusing just on the Byakugan versus the Sharingan directly in what they can bring to the table. And IRL person can possibly learn how to do something similar to what the Uchiha can, not nearly to the scale or capacity that the Sharingan allows an Uchiha to do.

If you want to make the argument that you can "anticipate" movements by training hard enough fine. But that ability is actually listed as one of the Kekkei Genkai powers; so it inevitably cheapens this power if anyone can just train to achieve the same exact thing What's applicable to Naruto does not have a necessary correlation IRL as even Taijutsu experts such as Rock Lee, Might Guy or heck even other Hyuga characters never displayed the capacity to predict an enemy's movements to the scope the Sharingan had allowed.

Just feels like a way to take away a unique aspect of the Sharingan.

Also @Shen: Ghost Gym Leader how do I work Darui into this mission for the Kumo side? It's Jonin selection is garbage outside of him and I have no way to justify him leaving the Raikage's aid.

 

[Godjacob]

Just to highlight how shit the Kumo Jonin are right now (Minus Darui), Samui is one of their bigger names and our Genin/Low Chunin characters (Azumi, Kiro, Reaver, Sagiso, Zaku etc.) could probably beat her and most Kumo Jonin pretty easily.

 

[kyuukestu]

Except for the Sharingan that is a basic ability. It may be "complex" by IRL standards but to the Sharigna it is one of its most basic functions. As you do not need one of its latter upgrades to use it nor do you need the full three Tomeo to display the capabilities. There is nothing further for them to "break down" as it is as seemless an ability to them as X-Ray vision would be to the Byakugan.



I mean the point of this comparison is focusing just on the Byakugan versus the Sharingan directly in what they can bring to the table. And IRL person can possibly learn how to do something similar to what the Uchiha can, not nearly to the scale or capacity that the Sharingan allows an Uchiha to do.

If you want to make the argument that you can "anticipate" movements by training hard enough fine. But that ability is actually listed as one of the Kekkei Genkai powers; so it inevitably cheapens this power if anyone can just train to achieve the same exact thing What's applicable to Naruto does not have a necessary correlation IRL as even Taijutsu experts such as Rock Lee, Might Guy or heck even other Hyuga characters never displayed the capacity to predict an enemy's movements to the scope the Sharingan had allowed.

Just feels like a way to take away a unique aspect of the Sharingan.

Also @Shen: Ghost Gym Leader how do I work Darui into this mission for the Kumo side? It's Jonin selection is garbage outside of him and I have no way to justify him leaving the Raikage's aid.

You phrase this as if anyone was given the chance to display any abilities on the same level as the Sharingan? As the single most developed thing in the whole show to the point where the entire plot revolves around it or one of it's evolution, using the argument of 'it wasn't shown' is simply unfair.

I won't be commenting on the rest because you yourself already broke down the 'seamless' prediction of the Sharingan, so if you refuse to acknowledge it then there isn't anything I can argue to convince you otherwise.

Once again, I don't consider the Prediction itself as one of it's unique kekkei genkai abilities, but rather the ability to bypass training is its unique kekkei genkai ability.

Either way, I've made logical arguments that haven't been refuted with similar logic besides pointing out the sheer lack of information.

Though for the point of a completely basic comparison of abilities eye to eye that don't factor in the user, then your argument is sound.

 

[kyuukestu]

If we're gonna use everything in the context of the show and only in the context of the show, then all your worries are completely founded.

Every other OC is completely worthless and will absolutely pale in comparison to any wielder of the Sharingan or a tailed beast- no, wait, my mistake- Kurama, since the other beasts are nowhere near as powerful.

That brings our actual tier list to;
1.Kiro
2.Raiku

And that's about it, no one else really matters, they're practically ants so just being a slightly bigger ant won't change much.

 

[Godjacob]

If we're gonna use everything in the context of the show and only in the context of the show, then all your worries are completely founded.

Every other OC is completely worthless and will absolutely pale in comparison to any wielder of the Sharingan or a tailed beast- no, wait, my mistake- Kurama, since the other beasts are nowhere near as powerful.

That brings our actual tier list to;
1.Kiro
2.Raiku

And that's about it, no one else really matters, they're practically ants so just being a slightly bigger ant won't change much.

Forgot to add whoever happens to be part of the God Clan Kaguya is from along with Rinnegan users (Who could be substituted as Uchiha anyway) XD.

 

[kyuukestu]

Forgot to add whoever happens to be part of the God Clan Kaguya is from along with Rinnegan users (Who could be substituted as Uchiha anyway) XD.

Well, the Rinnegan is just the evolved Sharingan, and the God Clan Kaguya is just the main branch of the Uchiha clan, so let's be honest here, all you've done is called the Sharingan by two other names.

 

[sSoul]

So essentially the good guys are all boned

 

[Shen: King of Digimon]

Also @Shen: Ghost Gym Leader how do I work Darui into this mission for the Kumo side? It's Jonin selection is garbage outside of him and I have no way to justify him leaving the Raikage's aid.

Well perhaps because she was his disciple or something? And it would be him partially responsible for the defection so he has to fix his mistakes?

 

[Godjacob]

Well perhaps because she was his disciple or something? And it would be him partially responsible for the defection so he has to fix his mistakes?

A good enough excuse to roll with, thanks Shen XD

Though seriously Kumo sucks. I need to dedicate more time than I have to restructure them (Along with Suna and Iwa) so they suck less. Like kyuu and you Shen with the Mist

 

[Shen: King of Digimon]

Though seriously Kumo sucks. I need to dedicate more time than I have to restructure them (Along with Suna and Iwa) so they suck less. Like kyuu and you Shen with the Mist

Sure I wouldn’t mind you doing that, it’s only fair at this point XD

 

[Godjacob]

Sure I wouldn’t mind you doing that, it’s only fair at this point XD

Though honestly, how I aim to do it will lead to new OCs. Cause the big thing the other nations lack are top tier Jonin. Like Kakashi, Guy etc. from Konoha. Konoha hogs all the top tier characters, so to balance I need to make some for the other nations.

And clans. They need that too.

 

[Shen: King of Digimon]

Though honestly, how I aim to do it will lead to new OCs. Cause the big thing the other nations lack are top tier Jonin. Like Kakashi, Guy etc. from Konoha. Konoha hogs all the top tier characters, so to balance I need to make some for the other nations.

And clans. They need that too.

Hm. That could get muddled but perhaps. Because not many of our characters are from the village of clouds, I can see a lot of us not paying too much attention to there

 

[Godjacob]

Hm. That could get muddled but perhaps. Because not many of our characters are from the village of clouds, I can see a lot of us not paying too much attention to there

I mean it will matter in war arcs and such. Kumo is a lot less threatening knowing more than half are cast AS THEY ARE NOW can solo most of their ninja with ease.

 

[Shen: King of Digimon]

I mean it will matter in war arcs and such. Kumo is a lot less threatening knowing more than half are cast AS THEY ARE NOW can solo most of their ninja with ease.

They have an army...so


Also while I see your point, it’s just a warning not to make too many Oc’s or such, as they’d kinda bee some of the only ninja (that we see) in the village of clouds, along with being more of a workload for you

 

[SageNeb]

Kyuu are you saying kiro is stronger than Raiku? Clearly they’re equal, right @Retro Master?

 

[kyuukestu]

A good enough excuse to roll with, thanks Shen XD

Though seriously Kumo sucks. I need to dedicate more time than I have to restructure them (Along with Suna and Iwa) so they suck less. Like kyuu and you Shen with the Mist

Though honestly, how I aim to do it will lead to new OCs. Cause the big thing the other nations lack are top tier Jonin. Like Kakashi, Guy etc. from Konoha. Konoha hogs all the top tier characters, so to balance I need to make some for the other nations.

And clans. They need that too.

*cough*

I'm free and willing to take all these positions of power off your hands.

*Innocently offers help while Dance with the Devil plays in the background*


or perhaps Deal with the Devil is more fitting~?

 

[Shen: King of Digimon]

*cough*

I'm free and willing to take all these positions of power off your hands.

*Innocently offers help while Dance with the Devil plays in the background*


or perhaps Deal with the Devil is more fitting~?

...you’d just corrupt them to siding with Mei XD

 

[SageNeb]

If you think about it, this would be smart. If kumo iwa and kiri are op... then there's balance.

 

[kyuukestu]

...you’d just corrupt them to siding with Mei XD

Nah, I keep my characters separate, they need a logical reason to ally.

It's why you all assumed the Hyūga-Nadeshiko would be a thing and instead you can the Mei-Nadeshiko cooperation. Besides, the Hyūga have an irreconcilable blood-feud with Kumogakure, which I intend to keep xD

The Hyūga are only sending someone on this mission because it's a chance to screw over Kumo and they're putting their full support behind that notion.

 

[kyuukestu]

I don't wanna control Ay though, he's not scheming at all. Mei's is at the very least clearly intelligent and an expert in politics considering she managed to reform a nation of bloodthirsty murders in less than a decade, but Ay...bleh.

 

[Godjacob]

*cough*

I'm free and willing to take all these positions of power off your hands.

*Innocently offers help while Dance with the Devil plays in the background*


or perhaps Deal with the Devil is more fitting~?

Well this doesn't seem the least bit suspicious. I'll take that offer~!

In all seriousness if you want to work on Kumo, be my guess. I'll keep Ay...though naturally I should know what you have planned given I am the village leader in this scenario.

Gives me a chance to focus more and Suna (Who really needs it) and Iwa.

They have an army...so

Fodder. Has. No. Value.

Iwagakure had an army to, and they got their asses handed to them by one man in Minato. Nameless extras suck no matter the rank and make zero difference in any fight. In this RP alone we've already had ANBU drop like flies, so it doesn't matter what rank the fodder is they still suck just like every nation other than Konoha.

 

[SageNeb]

Iwagakure had an army to, and they got their asses handed to them by one man in Minato. Nameless extras suck no matter the rank and make zero difference in any fight. In this RP alone we've already had ANBU drop like flies, so it doesn't matter what rank the fodder is they still suck just like every nation other than Konoha.

1 time when you give me permission it's used as an example to be used in arguments... im not accepting anymore offers from you

 

[Retro Master]

Don’t underestimate the Yuki Honor Guard! Better than the Anbu

 

[Godjacob]

1 time when you give me permission it's used as an example to be used in arguments... im not accepting anymore offers from you

??? I'm sorry I do not follow.

I was referencing Tayuya easily dealing with some ANBU Anko had against the Sound 4. The same group that lost to our Genin/Low Chunin characters. Pretty easily as a matter of fact.

 

[SageNeb]

Don’t underestimate the Yuki Honor Guard! Better than the Anbu

Kyuu are you saying kiro is stronger than Raiku? Clearly they’re equal, right @Retro Master?

 

[kyuukestu]

Alright, new rule! Fodder is garbage but named or titled fodder is assumed to have power befitting their titles.

Titled fodder include;
7 Ninja swordsmen
12 Ninja guardians
Explosion corps
Cloud fodder people- do they even have any?
Elite Puppet Brigade


Naturally, these are the elite of the elite among fodder and they have the right to be on par with Oc's despite only being inferior filler characters.