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Private/Closed Naruto AU RP: discussion

First Exam:

  • Written exam

    Votes: 5 41.7%

  • ??? New exam

    Votes: 7 58.3%
  • Total voters
    12
  • Poll closed .
kyuukestu

kyuukestu

Shen: Ghost Gym Leader said:
There’s a lot of assumptions here.


For 1: they have the biggest food market of all the lands, rivaled only by the leaf. As they are connected to the sea and have a the most plentiful seafood market than every nation combined. They will not have a starving problem, let alone herbs and plants.

There’s a reason why they haven’t overthrown already. Unification would have to come first before expansion, they won’t happen altogether. And if Kai or Jin are the leaders of this said force, unification will be much easier.

Along with that point, if they were in charge, they would lay the crack down on crime and much else, expanding the hunter nin corps and even establishing a new corps, featuring the Hozuki on the forefront. Ghosts in the village meant to play genjustu on candidates they assume have expressed rebellious behavior, to brainwash them has just in place

Think about when in solo
when Dryden voss died, and the main woman took over his place. Something like that
Click to expand...

Nebulix said:
There’s no civil war, the other people are already dead. Plus there’s always fishing. Also, I don’t need much land. Put a hotel where you can see the ocean and you’re making bank. If there’s any reason you’re unsafe, there’s always mercenaries and you can put missions for the mist village which you bought this land of from in the first place, they can easily conquer the land with their large army compared to everyone else in the mist. Heck maybe you can get a bundle deal with King Kai for security on your property
Click to expand...

There will be a civil war, with practically 100% certainty.

You forget that the Mist makes up a minuscule fraction of the Land of Water's total population. The Civil war won't come from within the Mist, but from the regular civilians who just lost the head of government and have been thrown into a panic. The ninja villages seem like sovereign nations by themselves, but they're not, they equate to the military forces within a sovereign nation. When the Head of Military decides abruptly that he wants to be King, then it causes a civil war because not everyone would be happy with that decision.

I was addressing specifically agriculture in my last post since that's what Nebby came with, but giving that a civil war will most certainly break out as the non-shinobi scramble to organize themselves, the food market will take a plunge. The infrastructure of the entire Nation is built not upon the Mist, but upon the non-shinobi who deal with resource gathering e.g. fishing, farming, etc. Unless the Mist is going to send Shinobi out to occupy the vacated role of fishermen, farmers, and all other food providers, you will face a food problem as no normal civilian is going to fish in waters which are a war zone. Being an Archipelago the Land of Water's regular forces are more likely to be Navy than Land-based, and with the Navy fighting, I doubt you'll have many fishers going around.

With conflict stirring and gathering food now a life-risking task, your market will take an inevitable plunge. The Mist would need to take over providing food for the entire Nation as the civilians would be displaced by war.

Unification requires more war. NUF said right there. The other forces within the Land of Water rebel even when the Mist is at the Peak of its power and all the Clans are 'unified', now that the Mist is dealing with the troubles brought on by the chaotic conditions of the 'non-military' majority, they have even less reason to stay peacefully subdued.

I doubt the Mist could play police to the entire Land of Water, they are just a single village within the land of water after all. They'd have too many things that would require the attention of Shinobi.

1) Rebelling Clans.
2) Invasion from Enemies.
3) Suppression of conflict among the civilians.

This Mist is already noted for it's low population, and that's among Villages, not entire Countries. Kinda doubt they'd be able to split their forces to fend of a Kumo or Iwa invasion (that would certainly come), Suppress the scramble for Political power within the Land of Water by the less-shinobi aristocratic families, and suppress the rebelling ninja clans who will leap at the chance to break free of Mist subjugation.

There are other shinobi forces within the Great Nations apart from the ninja villages, and in the case of the Mist, they revolutions among them seem to be very common. With the Mist splitting its attention to deal with so many things they'll have their hands more than full.

The Hōzuki don't have the chakra necessary to cast genjutsu over a population likely a hundred times larger than themselves. They're one clan, within one village, within one Island, within the entire group of island composing the Mist. Genjutsu suppression of the conflict isn't a feasible option in the long-run.

The transition of power will be nowhere near smooth unless you play your cards with expert finesse. Which an assassination of the ruling power is most certainly not.

The problem with Mercenaries is that they're likely to be hired against the Mist rather than to help them. The Military just staged a coup, if another army is being brought into the country then odds are it's not to help you speed up your coup.

Mission coming into the Mist all but freeze, they would've all but betrayed the trust of every citizen that doesn't live in the Mist village, which basically means their entire job clientele. Civilians would be very wary of eliciting the assistance of the people who put them into this mess in the first place just because their leader threw a temper tantrum.

With all that's going on this Mist would have little time to be sending in armies to slaughter civilians just so one businessman would prosper. Sorry, but factors considered, by the time the Mist gets around to your mission, your business will be ruined and you'll most likely be dead.




The crux of the matter is that the bulk of the conflict isn't coming from Shinobi. Shinobi are a minority even within their own villages, and their villages are the highest concentration of Shinobi in the entire land.

When the Military goes out and Slays the head of state, the chaos comes from the populace. The Shinobi villages are a specialized military at that, hence why there's so few of them. The civil war will come from the normal aristocrats and nobles who will fight to replace the Feudal Lord as the head of state. No, waltzing into the Capital city and declaring yourself overlords will not work because the normal aristocratic clans will easily flex their muscles -money- and hire shinobi from other nations to combat you.


As long as you don't have a way to deal with the turmoil created by the majority -the non-shinobi populace- you will, without doubt, fracture the land of water into a thousand pieces and get caught up trying to glue it back together.
 
kyuukestu

kyuukestu

Nebulix said:
when have daimyos ever even been good?
Click to expand...
When have Daimyos ever been bad?

Not much light is shed on the working of the Nations apart from what we see of the Ninja villages. But for reference, the most elite squad of the Land of Fire don't belong to the Leaf, but instead to the Fire Daimyo -the Twelve Ninja Guardians aren't necessarily affiliated with Konoha (Apart from Asuma who'd left the village at the time.)
 
kyuukestu

kyuukestu

Godjacob said:
When have they ever been bad?

I don't think the Daimyos ever get characterization beyond "they exist."
Click to expand...
Jinx! Knock on wood!

Well, exactly this, we simply don't know.

But...killing the leader of a sovereign state usually ends in war, and the 10,000 ish shinobi of Kiri won't be able to suppress all the conflict caused by the several hundred thousand inhabitants of the Land of Water.
 
kyuukestu

kyuukestu

Godjacob said:
Orochimaru almost destroyed Konoha with an army of pure fodder and a pre-time skip Gaara as all he had.

It's like saying the ANBU are the best of the best in my eyes.
Click to expand...
Well, the fact remains that they carried firepower they were confident would destroy the entire Ninja village.

Not counting people like the Sanin, or Itachi, Kakashi, and those of a tier clearly beyond everyone else. It'd be hard to find someone stronger than the 12 Ninja Guardians.

Besides, Konoha is garbage as a military power without their power-players. Pre-time skip none of them even existed since Kakashi, Guy, and those top-tier fighters weren't breaking continents in half or any such madness.

Their fodder is some of the weakest fodder in series (Iwa's fodder is better than Konoha's fodder) and that's why they lose every fight they enter until some OP protagonist wipes their asses for them. (Hashirama in the First War, Tobirama/Hiruzen in the Second War, Minato in the Third War, Naruto in the Fourth War.)
 
kyuukestu

kyuukestu

And I can't stress enough that the Wars were carried, on their backs, by those power players. Everyone else in the war was completely irrelevant.

Iwa vs Konoha was really just Minato vs Iwa, since Konoha was getting absolutely destroyed before Minato stepped in.


Hell, the Sanin almost got killed by a group of Iwa fodder.
 
Shen: King of Digimon

Shen: King of Digimon

Previously Shen: King of the Mist
kyuukestu said:
There will be a civil war, with practically 100% certainty.

You forget that the Mist makes up a minuscule fraction of the Land of Water's total population. The Civil war won't come from within the Mist, but from the regular civilians who just lost the head of government and have been thrown into a panic. The ninja villages seem like sovereign nations by themselves, but they're not, they equate to the military forces within a sovereign nation. When the Head of Military decides abruptly that he wants to be King, then it causes a civil war because not everyone would be happy with that decision.

I was addressing specifically agriculture in my last post since that's what Nebby came with, but giving that a civil war will most certainly break out as the non-shinobi scramble to organize themselves, the food market will take a plunge. The infrastructure of the entire Nation is built not upon the Mist, but upon the non-shinobi who deal with resource gathering e.g. fishing, farming, etc. Unless the Mist is going to send Shinobi out to occupy the vacated role of fishermen, farmers, and all other food providers, you will face a food problem as no normal civilian is going to fish in waters which are a war zone. Being an Archipelago the Land of Water's regular forces are more likely to be Navy than Land-based, and with the Navy fighting, I doubt you'll have many fishers going around.

With conflict stirring and gathering food now a life-risking task, your market will take an inevitable plunge. The Mist would need to take over providing food for the entire Nation as the civilians would be displaced by war.

Unification requires more war. NUF said right there. The other forces within the Land of Water rebel even when the Mist is at the Peak of its power and all the Clans are 'unified', now that the Mist is dealing with the troubles brought on by the chaotic conditions of the 'non-military' majority, they have even less reason to stay peacefully subdued.

I doubt the Mist could play police to the entire Land of Water, they are just a single village within the land of water after all. They'd have too many things that would require the attention of Shinobi.

1) Rebelling Clans.
2) Invasion from Enemies.
3) Suppression of conflict among the civilians.

This Mist is already noted for it's low population, and that's among Villages, not entire Countries. Kinda doubt they'd be able to split their forces to fend of a Kumo or Iwa invasion (that would certainly come), Suppress the scramble for Political power within the Land of Water by the less-shinobi aristocratic families, and suppress the rebelling ninja clans who will leap at the chance to break free of Mist subjugation.

There are other shinobi forces within the Great Nations apart from the ninja villages, and in the case of the Mist, they revolutions among them seem to be very common. With the Mist splitting its attention to deal with so many things they'll have their hands more than full.

The Hōzuki don't have the chakra necessary to cast genjutsu over a population likely a hundred times larger than themselves. They're one clan, within one village, within one Island, within the entire group of island composing the Mist. Genjutsu suppression of the conflict isn't a feasible option in the long-run.

The transition of power will be nowhere near smooth unless you play your cards with expert finesse. Which an assassination of the ruling power is most certainly not.

The problem with Mercenaries is that they're likely to be hired against the Mist rather than to help them. The Military just staged a coup, if another army is being brought into the country then odds are it's not to help you speed up your coup.

Mission coming into the Mist all but freeze, they would've all but betrayed the trust of every citizen that doesn't live in the Mist village, which basically means their entire job clientele. Civilians would be very wary of eliciting the assistance of the people who put them into this mess in the first place just because their leader threw a temper tantrum.

With all that's going on this Mist would have little time to be sending in armies to slaughter civilians just so one businessman would prosper. Sorry, but factors considered, by the time the Mist gets around to your mission, your business will be ruined and you'll most likely be dead.




The crux of the matter is that the bulk of the conflict isn't coming from Shinobi. Shinobi are a minority even within their own villages, and their villages are the highest concentration of Shinobi in the entire land.

When the Military goes out and Slays the head of state, the chaos comes from the populace. The Shinobi villages are a specialized military at that, hence why there's so few of them. The civil war will come from the normal aristocrats and nobles who will fight to replace the Feudal Lord as the head of state. No, waltzing into the Capital city and declaring yourself overlords will not work because the normal aristocratic clans will easily flex their muscles -money- and hire shinobi from other nations to combat you.


As long as you don't have a way to deal with the turmoil created by the majority -the non-shinobi populace- you will, without doubt, fracture the land of water into a thousand pieces and get caught up trying to glue it back together.
Click to expand...


Trust me, if assasinations were an art form, I’d be picassso XD.

I’m very careful with these things, trust me. I only thought about this idea since the very idea of this RP crossed my mind. I had a long time to think on this particular subject.

You automatically assume it would be that blunt. In fact, it will be very calculating, to the point where the damiyo would be demonized, a scandal could make wonders. Had him so hated in the public opinion that when you take him out the people will rejoice. That’s how you win a populace.

If you come in as a force of hope and inspiration to a people, it makes all the difference. Along wit some...other assurances. But that’s all I’ll give away for now
 
Godjacob

Godjacob

kyuukestu said:
Besides, Konoha is garbage as a military power without their power-players.
Click to expand...

But you can't just pretend they do not exist. Konoha's power players are the reason they are the superpower of the world, which is why fodder is inconsequential to them.

Minato basically defeated all of Iwa by himself to lay the most obvious example. Those power players count for far more than nameless extras.
 
kyuukestu

kyuukestu

Shen: Ghost Gym Leader said:
Trust me, if assasinations were an art form, I’d be picassso XD.

I’m very careful with these things, trust me. I only thought about this idea since the very idea of this RP crossed my mind. I had a long time to think on this particular subject.

You automatically assume it would be that blunt. In fact, it will be very calculating, to the point where the damiyo would be demonized, a scandal could make wonders. Had him so hated in the public opinion that when you take him out the people will rejoice. That’s how you win a populace.

If you come in as a force of hope and inspiration to a people, it makes all the difference. Along wit some...other assurances. But that’s all I’ll give away for now
Click to expand...
Of course, I thought of that, and my conclusion was it's an unlikely even for 10,000 to successfully pull the wool over the eyes of a million.

You're assuming everything goes perfectly seamlessly, but the Daimyos are in close contact with each other, and even if you manage to fool the entire land of water, your schemes will be revealed by the other nations.
 
kyuukestu

kyuukestu

Godjacob said:
But you can't just pretend they do not exist. Konoha's power players are the reason they are the superpower of the world, which is why fodder is inconsequential to them.

Minato basically defeated all of Iwa by himself to lay the most obvious example. Those power players count for far more than nameless extras.
Click to expand...
Yea, but since there's no super-elite squad of all power players...then the Ninja Guardians take the cake.
 
SageNeb

SageNeb

Previously 5DigitNeb
Shen: Ghost Gym Leader said:
Trust me, if assasinations were an art form, I’d be picassso XD.

I’m very careful with these things, trust me. I only thought about this idea since the very idea of this RP crossed my mind. I had a long time to think on this particular subject.

You automatically assume it would be that blunt. In fact, it will be very calculating, to the point where the damiyo would be demonized, a scandal could make wonders. Had him so hated in the public opinion that when you take him out the people will rejoice. That’s how you win a populace.

If you come in as a force of hope and inspiration to a people, it makes all the difference. Along wit some...other assurances. But that’s all I’ll give away for now
Click to expand...
i knew it! Pain really isn't the main antagonist! The real one... is the creator of this very rp...
 
Shen: King of Digimon

Shen: King of Digimon

Previously Shen: King of the Mist
kyuukestu said:
Of course, I thought of that, and my conclusion was it's an unlikely even for 10,000 to successfully pull the wool over the eyes of a million.

You're assuming everything goes perfectly seamlessly, but the Daimyos are in close contact with each other, and even if you manage to fool the entire land of water, your schemes will be revealed by the other nations.
Click to expand...
Ha, what little view you have of me. Of course it can be done. 1 man, minato managed to level the army of Iwa as you said. A Well structured and thought out plan could quash this reputation and ‘impossible’ endeavor as you so call it.

Nagato managed to take the place of his Kage after all and was heralded as a god. Don’t doubt what I have up my sleeve~
 
SageNeb

SageNeb

Previously 5DigitNeb
Godjacob said:
I mean the Ninja Guardians in canon. Not your creations, each of them I expect to be Kakashi/Guy tier minimum (Which is a good thing, I want the other nations to not be weaklings. But knowing you we've got quite the surprises in store XD)
Click to expand...
so them combined can beat the raikage? HMMMMM
 
kyuukestu

kyuukestu

Shen: Ghost Gym Leader said:
Ha, what little view you have of me. Of course it can be done. 1 man, minato managed to level the army of Iwa as you said. A Well structured and thought out plan could quash this reputation and ‘impossible’ endeavor as you so call it.

Nagato managed to take the place of his Kage after all and was heralded as a god. Don’t doubt what I have up my sleeve~
Click to expand...
Hanzo was a dictator it's not like he was beloved by the populace or anything.

Even if you manage to make a seamless plan the crushes the Daimyo's reputation, the first person to be elected the new leader wouldn't come from the Mist, it would come from the non-shinobi aristocrats.

I'm rather doubtful of the scheme in the first place because it'd have to be so detailed an so in-depth, that it completely fools the everyone in the Land of Water, and every other Shinobi power. You'd be putting on a play to fool the entire world, and that means you'll need nothing but sheer finesse. Genjutsu can only be used sparingly -if any at all- since if any shinobi watching on happens to unravel it your whole plan will come crashing down.
 
Shen: King of Digimon

Shen: King of Digimon

Previously Shen: King of the Mist
kyuukestu said:
I'm rather doubtful of the scheme in the first place because it'd have to be so detailed an so in-depth, that it completely fools the everyone in the Land of Water, and every other Shinobi power. You'd be putting on a play to fool the entire world, and that means you'll need nothing but sheer finesse. Genjutsu can only be used sparingly -if any at all- since if any shinobi watching on happens to unravel it your whole plan will come crashing down.
Click to expand...

Genjustu isn’t the only tool at my disposal. Pure mind games and master plan will work as well. I have plans that are already enacted on other matters that no one has caught yet. I can do it
 
kyuukestu

kyuukestu

Godjacob said:
I mean the Ninja Guardians in canon. Not your creations, each of them I expect to be Kakashi/Guy tier minimum (Which is a good thing, I want the other nations to not be weaklings. But knowing you we've got quite the surprises in store XD)
Click to expand...
Yes, I'm talking about the Ninja guardians in canon. They, individually, were fighters capable of taking on Akatsuki members, even if they didn't win. Together, with who knows what tactics they have, they'd give Guy a lot of trouble.

They're not like, tanking punches from 8-gates guy, but I'm doubtful he could kill them all before they finished setting up something like Limelight, which I doubt he'd survive.
 
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