Shen: King of Digimon
Previously Shen: King of the Mist
Which by the way, they fought off team 7 to some extent.
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Private/Closed Naruto AU RP: discussion
- Thread starter Shen: King of Digimon
- Start date
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- naruto
Yes, but my main point is that when paired against each other, Konoha fodder loses to Other nations fodder 80% of the time. Therefore we'd need to equalize their power so they're on par, and then Konoha would be the strongest by virtue of having the largest military force because of their population.
The timeline is a bit weird.
He was Jinchuriki after Rin. So after Kakashi killed Rin the mist would've had to recapture the 3 tails to seal it into Yagura. Not sure who was the Jinchuriki before Rin though.
I mean the fodder never actually matters. If it did Iwa would not have been as humiliated as they were in the Third War.
I think this "Konoha Fodder sucks" narrative is just trying to paint a weakness on an OP nation that doesn't exist. Least in canon. But for the AU yeah we should equalize fodder minus the "exceptional" fodder groups like Shen's bodyguards.
I think saying Yugara captured it is a vast difference then saying Mist fodder did it.
Except Iwa was winning the 3rd War until Minato stepped in.
Any Iwa was fighting a war of invasion and through another country to boot. Not only were they beating Konoha fodder, but they were also doing it while securing lines through Kusa, and need I mention they managed to corner the Sannin once?
It's simply a fact that Konoha shinobi get warfed to show off power from all the other guys.
So we'd need to remove this 'Konoha Fodder Suck' narrative as you put it.
They captured the 3 tails several times though, and not all of those times could've been Yagura. In fact, it's never stated that Yagura captured the 3 tails.
After Rin died, the Mist captured the 3 tails and sealed it into a Young Yagura and after being Jinchuriki, Yagura became Kage.
That says less about Kusa than anything else. Do they even have a military?
I hold reservations, specially given Obito killed one of their "stronger" fodder ninja as a Genin but like I said we can equalize the traditional fodder to each other while making special ones their own group (Like the Leaf ANBU or Shen's bodyguards and such).
But...that's exactly what I'm telling you we should do '-'
And yet Zabuza was able to make a career adding their names to the body bag quite casually. I think this highlights how much the three-tails sucks more than anything
And I never disagreed, just argued the notion that Konoha's Fodder is without any debate the weakest among them all. Nothing more
A Biju is still a Biju though, *shrugs* and Zabuza scales loosely to Yagura, a perfect Jinchuriki, because Zabuza tried to assassinate him and escaped.And yet Zabuza was able to make a career adding their names to the body bag quite casually. I think this highlights how much the three-tails sucks more than anything
I mean so did Kakuzu with Hashirama. Does that mean we scale them together?
For our AU yes, but in the Naruto canon not all Biju are created equal. Something Kurama demonstrates very well at every turn. Heck even Pre-Time Skip Naruto defeated Shukaku.
That's why I said loosely~
Kakuzu is a Kage-Tier, since that's what S-class Criminals are supposed to scale to. Hashirama was Biju+ Tier...and also pretty merciful. Yagura is not merciful. Give Hashirama Yagura's personality and Kakuzu wouldn't have lived. Especially since he didn't have Earth Grudge Fear yet.
I mean, Kyuubi Hax + Gamabunta would've swept just about everyone in the village except for maybe...the Kage tiers.
Kurama played little factor in Shukaku's defeat. Naruto didn't use its power (Only a sliver) till the final one vs. one confrontation with Gaara. And given Kimimaro schooled Naruto with that power and Curse Mark Sasuke (Post ceremony) was also superior that is a major stretch.
In fact, considering Kakuzu didn't have Earth Grudge Fear when he tried to assassinate Hashirama, I wouldn't even call him a Kage Tier.
He lived just because Hashirama is a softie.
Because in truth all Naruto did was Head Butt Gaara, not fight the Shukaku. Gamabunta tussled sorta with the Shukaku for a bit but iirc that was just some Air/Water bullets colliding.
Given that we can say no-tail Naruto does not scale to Shukaku.
That wasn't my point, the fact that someone so much weaker was able to find a way to beat it and the fact that a frog summon as you said did seem to scale to it was more my point.
Okay, I can acquiesce to such reasoning. Gamabunta is a Sage creature for whatever that counts as.
I think the main point from this is still most Shinobi fodder have better feats to their names than Konoha fodder.
Even if I don't think they are that bad to the fodder of other nations nor do I think fodder strength actually means anything I'll agree with you here and move forward. Got a busy day ahead of me can't waste it all debating on charms much as I'd like to.
So long as we scale background fodder as you said we should have no issues.
Essentially so.
Since we're already on the topic of Konoha we should finish up all their other stats.
their Canon stats were something like;
Population: 5/5
Military: 3/5
Economy: 2/5
So let the debate begin anew!
Economy should be higher, no way I see it as that bad. And while I would live in Konoha more than other nations population can be up in the air. They did survive their village being attacked so many times and repopulate without much issue so there is that.
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Though we should consider who we want to have advantages over the other in the setting really.
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Shen: King of Digimon
Previously Shen: King of the Mist
We should add the Category ‘research’ to the mix
The reason the economy is so bad is cuz some of the high taxes are secretly being used by Danzo to fund Root lel nah jk but it is possible.
But I think economy should be higher. So 3 or 4.
Economy should definitely be higher, like a 3 or a 4. No way is that big population being substained with such a bad economy, where are the slums if that was the case?
Shen: King of Digimon
Previously Shen: King of the Mist
Exactly. I agree with Jacob, retro, and Hydrat on this one Kyuu
I've got a decent idea how to improve the economy in Iwa, might need some ironing out though. How will you guys improve the economy of your countries?
What economy do they have?
Everyone has an economy stat of 2 except for Kumo which has 5. Right now I think Iwa has tourism and sea trade, not too sure
I mena what kind of economic things do each village have? Don't tell me Suna sells sand
Shen: King of Digimon
Previously Shen: King of the Mist
But what do they offer for trade and stuff?
I have no idea what Suna has, can't be much as they are kinda heavily relying on Konoha. Kiri probably has seafood, certain herbs and weapons given the Seven Swords. Kyuu and Shen can probably tell you more. Konoha sells a decent amount of pretty much everything, Kumo probably sells ores and stuff given they are in the mountains and Iwa might sell the occasional weapon or ore. Kinda hard to sell anything of value in that kind of location
Shen: King of Digimon
Previously Shen: King of the Mist
Suna: very limited. Only certain herbs and puppets
Mist: massive farmland, Biggest fishing industry, platinum mining, wines, Steel.
Leaf: Wood, Massive farmland, Hunting meats, bronze.
Oh, there’s slums. But it’s only a small part of the village. I think I made a post with the Leaf slums awhile back lel
I'll try and find it then
Shen: King of Digimon
Previously Shen: King of the Mist
That’s also where Zaku grew up and was mistreated by the leaf’s civilian populace, eventually Kou as well
That was before my time, but I see. Thanks for informing me
Even though Orochimaru is just using him, he still saved Zaku. I like how Zaku unconsciously continues this cycle by taking in Kou. Definitely has Kiro’s respect for looking out for the little guy.